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Old 10-20-2014, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
6,490 posts, read 16,178,435 times
Reputation: 5646

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobber123rd View Post
Republicans have gotten the majority of votes in Virginia Beach in the last two Presidential elections, and a plurality in last year's gubernatorial election, yet they did not win the state in any of those three. So I'd say that Virginia doesn't fit (but part of that is due to the unique way our cities are set up).
Indeed. Virginia Beach is more like a suburban county in its demographics and the way folks vote. It doesn't have a mass of urban "blue" people.

Fairfax County, the largest jurisdiction in the state, went for Obama, but you'd have to throw out Fairfax County, Norfolk city, Richmond city, and maybe Prince William County before you swing the election the other way.
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:39 AM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,526 posts, read 7,481,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
I dunno about Michigan, it's too union heavy. Detroits suburbs tend to be very moderate/social liberals that vote blue. Outside of that there are enough midsized metro's that are also fairly heavy blue. The conservative contingent is mostly on the west side of the state and I don't think it's got enough people to dilute the blue base from Lansing east.
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I used to live in that state and I believe its rural areas are VERY conservative. Very pro gun, very socially conservative, and lots of big gas guzzling trucks. Yes its pro union, but many of them don't actually vote dem, especially in the country. Even the ones that do vote dem are not traditional liberals. They absolutely hate many liberal causes. Michigan union members are often gun toting, hunting, gas guzzler driving, gay marriage opposing folks. This fact often frustrates democrats when they expect a blue state to act well, blue. Not all blue states are Massachusetts or Oregon however. You sometimes hear the phrase "blue dog" democrat to describe more conservative democrats. These folks are a bit populist, deeply distrust corporate America and heavily support unions. I think this term fits the upper Midwest perfectly, especially Michigan.
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Old 10-21-2014, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,348 posts, read 7,438,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
I dunno about Michigan, it's too union heavy. Detroits suburbs tend to be very moderate/social liberals that vote blue. Outside of that there are enough midsized metro's that are also fairly heavy blue. The conservative contingent is mostly on the west side of the state and I don't think it's got enough people to dilute the blue base from Lansing east.
I respectfully disagree. As Danielj72 stated, many union supporters in Michigan are social conservatives. I live in a very union-heavy county, Monroe, which lies between Toledo and Detroit and is populated by many union members/auto workers. Theoretically, this should be one of the bluest counties in the U.S., yet it only went for Obama over Romney 50% to 49% in 2012. Danielj72's description of the "good ole' boy" who belongs to the union but totes a gun and is conservative on social issues like abortion and gay marriage is spot on, and this is in the least conservative corner of the state. Cities like Ann Arbor, Detroit, and Flint are where the Dems rack up wins here, but most of the rest of the state, including many suburbs, particularly the western suburbs of Detroit such as Canton, Plymouth,Novi, and Northville, run solidly red. The fact that we have a Republican governor and state legislature attests to the fact that many folks in the large cities only tend to vote in Presidential elections and don't turn out for the mid-term elections, because they're frankly just not that interested. Without that urban vote, Michigan turns red rather quickly.

Last edited by canudigit; 10-21-2014 at 03:53 AM..
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:30 AM
 
4 posts, read 2,369 times
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yes Obviously removing any city from its state will make it more conservative, but in many states the "blue" areas extend well into the first-ring suburbs. I know I've looked at it before, and Obama would still have won (albeit more narrowly) New York and Pennsylvania without NYC and Philly respectively.
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:54 AM
 
3,970 posts, read 3,505,039 times
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Quote:
I used to live in that state and I believe its rural areas are VERY conservative. Very pro gun, very socially conservative, and lots of big gas guzzling trucks. Yes its pro union, but many of them don't actually vote dem, especially in the country. Even the ones that do vote dem are not traditional liberals. They absolutely hate many liberal causes. Michigan union members are often gun toting, hunting, gas guzzler driving, gay marriage opposing folks. This fact often frustrates democrats when they expect a blue state to act well, blue. Not all blue states are Massachusetts or Oregon however. You sometimes hear the phrase "blue dog" democrat to describe more conservative democrats. These folks are a bit populist, deeply distrust corporate America and heavily support unions. I think this term fits the upper Midwest perfectly, especially Michigan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
I respectfully disagree. As Danielj72 stated, many union supporters in Michigan are social conservatives. I live in a very union-heavy county, Monroe, which lies between Toledo and Detroit and is populated by many union members/auto workers. Theoretically, this should be one of the bluest counties in the U.S., yet it only went for Obama over Romney 50% to 49% in 2012. Danielj72's description of the "good ole' boy" who belongs to the union but totes a gun and is conservative on social issues like abortion and gay marriage is spot on, and this is in the least conservative corner of the state. Cities like Ann Arbor, Detroit, and Flint are where the Dems rack up wins here, but most of the rest of the state, including many suburbs, particularly the western suburbs of Detroit such as Canton, Plymouth,Novi, and Northville, run solidly red. The fact that we have a Republican governor and state legislature attests to the fact that many folks in the large cities only tend to vote in Presidential elections and don't turn out for the mid-term elections, because they're frankly just not that interested. Without that urban vote, Michigan turns red rather quickly.
People so often have been programmed to only associate social issues with blue and red, however the class warfare fiscal democrats are abundant everywhere. They many be gun toting, gay hating, deer killing redneck ****'s but they are still democrats. The title of this thread is "If you took away their biggest city". In Michigan If you take away it's largest city, you're still left with mid-sided metro areas like Lansing, Flint, Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, the Tri Cities, Ann Arbor/Jackson. All of these places are in counties that have voted solid blue since 1992. The only area to counter that would be the Grand Rapids/ Lakeshore areas, which with the steady population influx in those counties votings blocks have been moderating.

I absolutely agree that Michigan's rural areas are solidly conservative, but that's rural areas everywhere. At almost 10 million people, even without the Detroit area Michigan's population is still majority urban. As for the Repulican lead house and Governor, that is also not uncommon in other states that are blue in federal elections. But that Governor will be re-elected by the skin of his teeth, everyone knows how hard it is to unseat an incumbent. However they are about to elect another Democrat, to a senate seat that's been Democrat for 36 years. Detroit alone is not enough to turn the entire state.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:21 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,455 posts, read 11,958,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
,
I used to live in that state and I believe its rural areas are VERY conservative. Very pro gun, very socially conservative, and lots of big gas guzzling trucks. Yes its pro union, but many of them don't actually vote dem, especially in the country. Even the ones that do vote dem are not traditional liberals. They absolutely hate many liberal causes. Michigan union members are often gun toting, hunting, gas guzzler driving, gay marriage opposing folks. This fact often frustrates democrats when they expect a blue state to act well, blue. Not all blue states are Massachusetts or Oregon however. You sometimes hear the phrase "blue dog" democrat to describe more conservative democrats. These folks are a bit populist, deeply distrust corporate America and heavily support unions. I think this term fits the upper Midwest perfectly, especially Michigan.
Michigan's rural areas are not very conservative. They are more conservative than rural areas in Wisconsin and Minnesota, but far less so than say Ohio or Indiana (let alone the South). Very few counties vote over 60% Republican.

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Old 10-21-2014, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,433 posts, read 12,445,136 times
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Look at that sea of fire from Texas to South Dakota
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,405,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post
Look at that sea of fire from Texas to South Dakota
And without looking it up, I'll bet the Dakota blue is mostly Indian Reservations (AKA some of the poorest counties in the entire country).
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,455 posts, read 11,958,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
And without looking it up, I'll bet the Dakota blue is mostly Indian Reservations (AKA some of the poorest counties in the entire country).
Mostly true. The eastern third of South Dakota however (which is mostly lighter red to white/light blue) is legitimately much more politically moderate than the rest of the state though. The same general trend is notable in North Dakota - particularly the Fargo area, which is pretty moderate. Politically speaking, this area is the westernmost extension of the old Upper Midwest "communitarian" political culture, which changes further west into the much more stridently conservative "sagebrush" political culture (which cares about little other than property rights).
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Ohio, USA
1,085 posts, read 1,349,703 times
Reputation: 970
Washington, Oregon, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Nevada, New York, and Michigan.
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