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Old 10-21-2014, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Mostly true. The eastern third of South Dakota however (which is mostly lighter red to white/light blue) is legitimately much more politically moderate than the rest of the state though. The same general trend is notable in North Dakota - particularly the Fargo area, which is pretty moderate. Politically speaking, this area is the westernmost extension of the old Upper Midwest "communitarian" political culture, which changes further west into the much more stridently conservative "sagebrush" political culture (which cares about little other than property rights).
Do you attribute that to high German ancestry?
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Do you attribute that to high German ancestry?
For starters:

1. The Driftless area: TheMoneyIllusion Was the Driftless Area Obama’s ace in the hole?
2. The mining/Iron Range up north, with a long union/labor history. This is where Bob Dylan grew up.
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Do you attribute that to high German ancestry?
German/Scandinavian settlement may have played a role. But the eastern part of the Dakotas were also the furthest contiguous region settled by Yankees. Pretty much every area which was settled by New Englanders has a more communitarian rather than an individualist mindset. Yankees didn't move west in isolated farmsteads, they moved west to found towns. And they believed that individuals had a responsibility to their local communities, and in turn that government had a greater responsibility than to merely get out of the way, but to help improve society through investments in education and public works.

This can even be seen in Utah, which, despite being conservative/Republican today, is highly communitarian. Which is why despite their attitudes on national political issues, they're working to eliminate homelessness by giving all homeless people free apartments. "Ethnic Mormons" are the descendants of old-stock Yankee New Englanders, and have inherited the Yankee sentiment regarding good government.
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
For starters:

1. The Driftless area: TheMoneyIllusion Was the Driftless Area Obama’s ace in the hole?
2. The mining/Iron Range up north, with a long union/labor history. This is where Bob Dylan grew up.
Wisconsin was really the only non-caucus Midwestern state Obama was able to wrest from Clinton during the primary (other than Illinois, which was a given for Obama). We lost Michigan by double digits but their votes didn't count. We also lost Ohio decisively. Obama also suffered double digit defeats in most of the states in the Northeast (CT, VT and ME being the states that went Obama).

I've never really understood Wisconsin. When looking at the demographics, it seems like it would be a nightmare for Obama, especially in a race where Clinton was dominating the white, Catholic/working class vote. But WI proved to be an exception to the rule.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:31 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post

I've never really understood Wisconsin. When looking at the demographics, it seems like it would be a nightmare for Obama, especially in a race where Clinton was dominating the white, Catholic/working class vote. But WI proved to be an exception to the rule.
If Wisconsin has similarities to upstate NY, which Clinton won by a large margin, it should have gone for Clinton by a large margin, except for Madison. Excluding college dominated Tompkins County, Brooklyn gave Obama the best vote %, perhaps because of its large black population
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:34 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Mostly true. The eastern third of South Dakota however (which is mostly lighter red to white/light blue) is legitimately much more politically moderate than the rest of the state though. The same general trend is notable in North Dakota - particularly the Fargo area, which is pretty moderate. Politically speaking, this area is the westernmost extension of the old Upper Midwest "communitarian" political culture, which changes further west into the much more stridently conservative "sagebrush" political culture (which cares about little other than property rights).
Iowa has an interesting west / east division that doesn't seem to that related to urban vs rural.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Michigan's rural areas are not very conservative. They are more conservative than rural areas in Wisconsin and Minnesota, but far less so than say Ohio or Indiana (let alone the South). Very few counties vote over 60% Republican.

I used to live there, and I lived in the rural areas of the state. I currently live in the red state south. The social conservatism is similar, the biggest difference is Midwesterners are more reserved about their religious belief. Like I said those who vote democrat there are often not really liberal. They tend to be very socially conservative. I believe it is one of the more politically complicated states in the country. It is tough to define because of what appears to be contradicting values. The same election that Michigan voted overwhelmingly to ban gay marriage, it also voted for Kerry for president. That means that many who voted for Kerry also voted to ban gay marriage. Liberal democrats do not do that. Michigan has many conservative democrats, something that has died out in much of the country, but it used to be common. Because of the strong union traditions there (which I believe has hurt the state), this conservative democrat (blue dog) has survived into the era of ultra liberal democrats being the norm. Another thing I will say is there is absolutely a perception that the Detroit area controls the political destiny of the state, something that rural people in Michigan greatly resent. I believe the state would turn red immediately if Detroits vote were removed. Is is as conservative as the south??? No its not. I also agree that Indiana is the most conservative state in the Midwest. However Michigan is definitely the most conservative upper Midwest state, because of its social conservatism. Michigan seems to not make sense politically, deer hunting, church going, traditional values people who vote democrat makes no sense, but to someone who has lived there I understand it. You have to really know the state to understand it, really its more about years of union traditions than anything. Its about a deep distrust of big business which stands alongside an outdoors tradition and a strong Lutheran and Catholic background. I think this is why every election a lot of money and effort goes into that state, because dems are not comfortable that they have it, and republicans are aware of its social conservatism and believe they can turn it just as Regan did back in the 1980s.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Here is a ranking of states by social/economic liberalism and conservatism in 2000.

Ranking states by the liberalism/conservatism of their voters - Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science

I wish there was more data on this so we could see how public opinion in the states has changed over time. The Red State/Blue state divide doesn't capture any of the nuance.

It's still interesting to look at the electoral maps from the last six elections or so.

http://www.270towin.com/historical_maps/1992.gif

West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Louisiana, Arkansas, Montana, and Missouri were all blue. The 1996 election wasn't too different.

http://www.270towin.com/historical_maps/1996.gif

Dems lost Montana, Georgia and Colorado but won Arizona. Then 2000 brought about the electoral map that looks much more familiar to us today.

http://www.270towin.com/historical_maps/2000.gif
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:14 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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I wouldn't have expected Iowa to be a hotbed of economic conservatism, more so than almost all southern states? Vermont is the same on the economic side as West Virginia but supports create single-payer health care statewide.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:15 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I used to live there, and I lived in the rural areas of the state. I currently live in the red state south. The social conservatism is similar, the biggest difference is Midwesterners are more reserved about their religious belief. Like I said those who vote democrat there are often not really liberal. They tend to be very socially conservative. I believe it is one of the more politically complicated states in the country. It is tough to define because of what appears to be contradicting values. The same election that Michigan voted overwhelmingly to ban gay marriage, it also voted for Kerry for president.
The voters care more about economic political issues, then. That should count as least as much if not more than social issues for liberal vs conservative.
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