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View Poll Results: Is Southern the same as country
Yes - the two are synonymous and all country people are Southern, too 14 17.95%
No - they can exist independently of each other in any region 64 82.05%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-15-2015, 01:55 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,839,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
Appalachian dialect, which is the southern mountain dialect (which in itself has great variation), does not go beyond West Virginia. The most authoritative source for dialect is Prof. Lubov's Telsur project at the Univ. of Pennsylvania. Here again is their basic map of US speech patterns.

Here is their map again-

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...p/NatMap1.html

Here is the link to their page-

National Map

Here is what they say about KY WV.

"The great contribution of Kurath to American dialectology, the identification of the Midland region, is well represented in Map 1, but somewhat transformed. A major part of the South Midland--the Appalachian cities of Kentucky, West Virginia and Tennessee--is here rejoined to the South."

Aside from northern West Virginia which influences and is influenced by Pennsylvania, there is no commonality. If there is some Appalachian speech patterns in southern Ohio it is due to the tens of thousands of Kentuckians and West Virginians that have moved to that area since the end of the Civil War. It is the result of migration, not their being part of Appalachia.

The various "accent tag" or "accent challenge" videos on Youtube show this quite clearly.
NO commonality, ok buddy. Keep thinking the Mason-Dixon line causes a magical dialect shift with zero carryover.
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Old 08-15-2015, 02:02 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,839,346 times
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For the Floridian that mentioned the attitudes of Michigan transplants, I agree. Michigan is country as heeeeeeeell yet is also without a doubt one of the most Northern of all Northern states. The brutal winters, the accents (yoopers and trolls alike), the style of driving, the food, and its Rust Belt status cements this state as unmistakable North, even without latitude taken into account. Outside of Detroit and Grand Rapids, Michigan is country, however. Hunting, fishing, outdoor sports are a part of life.
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Old 08-15-2015, 02:29 PM
 
1,814 posts, read 715,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
NO commonality, ok buddy. Keep thinking the Mason-Dixon line causes a magical dialect shift with zero carryover.
I lived for twenty years in Gallia and Jackson Counties in southern Ohio. Everybody there identified as Appalachian. I never knew anybody who lived there to dispute that fact, and it often comes up in conversation when comparing that area to other regions. It is unrelated to the migration of people from deeper areas of Appalachia. The dozen or so counties in southern Ohio that I am familiar with have not experienced major population influxes in well over a century, with Portsmouth and Ironton somewhat being the exception (the major exception being Athens due to Ohio University, but the population increase there has been overwhelmingly from non-Appalachian regions). The hundreds of thousands of migrants you are referring to migrated predominantly to Ohio major cities, none of which are in southeastern Ohio. My area, including the majority of my parents extended families, contributed to that migration, it wasn't a beneficiary of it. And, by the way, I think that a lot of what you are defining as Appalachian actually refers to Central Appalachia, which the media tends to focus on when dealing with Appalachia, not the region as a whole. It can get confusing. You can run into a lot of problems when you try to define Appalachia linguistically or even culturally. The ARC coverage area isn't based on those factors. Geographically it is simply the Appalachian Mountains and their foothills. People often try to define it based on stereotypical images.... moonshine, hillbillies, etc, they don't often picture downtown Pittsburgh or Knoxville, or think of smaller cities like Charleston, Huntington. Roanoke, etc, but those places are all in Appalachia, too. And when people find out you are from an Appalachian area it can be amusing how often they try to explain basic things to you lol.

Last edited by robertbrianbush; 08-15-2015 at 02:42 PM..
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Old 08-15-2015, 04:42 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,716,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbrianbush View Post
This response was very patronizing. I have lived in Ohio my entire life and am very aware of the state's sports scene. I will even throw out some major sports teams that you missed...the Columbus Crew and Jackets, and at the collegiate level OSU, the reigning national champ, and Cincinnati in football and in basketball OSU and Cincy again, Dayton, and Xavier. The NCAA tourney kicks off every year in Dayton. Miami is known as the "Cradle of Coaches". We are the birthplace and home of Lebron James. I get that we are nationally known in sports. Outside of the realm of sports, we will host the Republican'16 convention, we are the home of numerous Fortune 500 companies, the Air Force Museum, Wright-Patterson AFB (the hub of Air Force research & development as well as it's logistics HQ) and the Rock N' Roll and pro football halls of fame. I get that our cities are nationally prominent. The situations I was referring to were not sarcasm or humor that went over my head. In the one instance the woman was confused by the references that I had made to Cincy's NFL team, questioned me about it which I took as sarcasm, but then questioned others about it after I had left. She actually asked them if Ohio had larger cities than the town we were in. She was honestly confused and admits it.The other was a woman from New Jersey who actually told our college class that she was surprised that Ohio had large cities when she got transferred here, she had that it was all cornfields.I know well that Ohio has a number of major cities..six over one hundred thousand in population and over twenty metro areas in a fairly small geographic area, so I tend to assume people know that, so I give folks the benefit of the doubt. In both cases everybody else who was involved interpreted it the same way I did, and the individuals involved would tell you that that was the case. I think some people just have a Midwestern hayseed, flyover country, farmers daughter/shotgun image of the Midwest in general and sometimes Ohio in particular. Geographical stereotyping can be as misinformed and as hateful as racial prejudice. Just ask any West Virginian about that. People from there are often flat-out harrassed about being from there. I am from southeastern Ohio and can give many examples of that as can everyone I know who is from there. Some folks are just profoundly ignorant when it comes to geography. Sometimes people are jyst joking orbeing smart alecks but not always. There are quite a few people who think that New Mexico is in Mexico and West Virginia is western Virginia.
I didn't mean to come off as -too- patronizing, sorry. I just think that people who are so ignorant of Ohio as to think there are no cities here are painfully ignorant dolts and not representative of even your average geographically challenged American.

For what it's worth I live in Hamilton in SW OH. What I come across is not people who don't know that Ohio has significant urban areas, but worse, people who think southern Ohio is the South.

And to add to your last sentence, there are people who think New Jersey is the capital of New York.
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Old 08-16-2015, 04:47 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,217 posts, read 17,945,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
For what it's worth I live in Hamilton in SW OH. What I come across is not people who don't know that Ohio has significant urban areas, but worse, people who think southern Ohio is the South.
Those people are ****ing morons, and this website is teeming with them. I'm seriously getting sick and tired of people who act like the South begins at I-80. It's overwhelmingly people from New England and the Great Lakes who act this way, and it's beyond stupid. In fact, it appears to be willful ignorance in many cases. Many people in New England and the Great Lakes seem to be just as culturally dogmatic and snotty as your typical Southern alpha male.

If there's a "Deep South" and an "Upper South," then there's also a "Deep North" and a "Lower North," as far as I'm concerned. If you want to find the Lower North, find I-70 on a map, and then draw a pair of lines parallel to it: one 80 miles to the north, and one 80 miles to the south. There you go. North of that zone is the Deep North (New England and the Great Lakes), and south of that zone is the Upper South. The Lower North is different from New England and the Great Lakes, but still undeniably Northern, just as the Upper South is different from the Deep South, but still undeniably Southern.
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,310,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
For the Floridian that mentioned the attitudes of Michigan transplants, I agree. Michigan is country as heeeeeeeell yet is also without a doubt one of the most Northern of all Northern states. The brutal winters, the accents (yoopers and trolls alike), the style of driving, the food, and its Rust Belt status cements this state as unmistakable North, even without latitude taken into account. Outside of Detroit and Grand Rapids, Michigan is country, however. Hunting, fishing, outdoor sports are a part of life.
Michigan -- especially southern MI -- is highly urbanized actually. The rest of the state north of Grand Rapids is much more country tho.
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,310,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
I didn't mean to come off as -too- patronizing, sorry. I just think that people who are so ignorant of Ohio as to think there are no cities here are painfully ignorant dolts and not representative of even your average geographically challenged American.

For what it's worth I live in Hamilton in SW OH. What I come across is not people who don't know that Ohio has significant urban areas, but worse, people who think southern Ohio is the South.

And to add to your last sentence, there are people who think New Jersey is the capital of New York.
Southern Ohio IS much more southern-feeling....compared to most of the North (or "Deep North"). I grew up in Minneapolis and have lived in and have spent time in almost exclusively Northern cities, like; Mpls, Madison, Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland, and the accents and the culture is quite different from places south of there, starting with Columbus (where I lived for 5 years).

I'm not saying Columbus, Cincy and southern OH is the South, but to a Northerner it can feel more stereotypically Southern than stereotypically Northern.....if that makes sense.
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:59 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere
8,939 posts, read 4,095,428 times
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I think the Upland South is more "country" while the Delta and Gulf Coast region has an entirely different feel.

The large metropolitan areas like Atlanta and Dallas have plenty of transplants from around the nation and the globe so you don't really get a country vibe in those places.

Last edited by JMT; 08-17-2015 at 08:09 PM.. Reason: copyright violation
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:01 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
6,542 posts, read 3,650,165 times
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In my opinion South and Rural (or Country) are two different concepts that do not have to be synonymous. Most people would realize that there is no monolithic "South". The perception of 'South = Country' is a myth and likely the result of 100 years of post-CW issues and sometimes unpleasantness in the rural South that got a lot of attention and still is recalled and repeated in media and popular entertainment....to the extent that the idea is embraced by some folks who live there or others who foster the idea. Folklore, TVA electrification, poverty, education issues, social equality, racial inequality are just a few things that have brought more attention to the area than other places that are just as "country". There are other rural areas in the west and north and northeast that were generally ignored and still are to a large extent.
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Old 08-17-2015, 01:11 PM
 
2,231 posts, read 1,686,165 times
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Great question, OP. This annoys me, too. A lot of rural Southerners may fit the "country" label, but then so do a large amount of rural people from most states in America (especially in the Midwest). So "country" is not just exclusive to the South. Also, these days, in most large cities in the South, a lot of people don't even have Southern accents anymore, including children to 20-somethings who were born and raised in those cities, so it's not just the transplants; you will usually notice that the heaviest Southern accents usually come from people who are 40+.
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