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View Poll Results: Is Michigan More Like Minnesota or Upstate New York
Minnesota 54 58.70%
Upstate New York 38 41.30%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-29-2014, 04:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoanCrawford View Post
Oh my gosh, that's awful! Really puts things in perspective for me. Was thinking about moving to upstate NY, now I'm not so sure.
Don't let that sway you at all. Most people could care less and just ask questions about where you want to live. It seems like it may have been more about the individuals the poster was around, rather than the city/area, singular or plural. If anything, Rochester would be good and Syracuse is probably a better choice than Buffalo when looking some stats as far as percentage of same sex households.

Another rule of thumb is to look near a college/university area or a similarly influenced area.
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Old 11-29-2014, 04:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
Nearly 50% of Michigan's population lives in the Detroit CSA so that's a pretty big chunk of the start's population you're not counting. Detroit's CSA is also pretty much equivalent to the total population of Minnesota. So removing Detroit out of the mix makes it an apples to oranges comparison.

Otherwise you're just comparing rural areas to rural areas which aren't going to have very large differences across great areas to begin with. The major cities are where most of the cultural representatives (and where most people come across them) exist for each state/region.
That is why I said earlier that the Twin Cities and Detroit may need to be taken out if we are just going to look at Upstate NY as well. So, even the initial post/title is kind of flawed.
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Old 11-29-2014, 05:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
The way you describe Minnesotans and their tendencies to be reserved with emotions but otherwise friendly is exactly the same in Michigan. I have never lived in NY or knew anyone from there, so I guess I have no idea about their nature in that respect. I have heard they are reserved, but did not know that meant actually cold and aloof. You will not find that in Michigan. That must be the difference between the Midwest and the northeast you are seeing. As far as feelings about minorities and gays, well I don't think you'd find that kind of thing you saw in NY in Michigan either. Being socially conservative does not mean outright discrimination and racism. Michigan overall does not approve of homosexuality, that fact is enshrined in its law defining marriage as being between a man and a woman. However you don't hear that many stories of outright aggression toward gays, or any effort to harm them. There is a bit of a "live and let live" attitude in Michigan regarding that, at least as long as the issue is not pushed. There is racial tension in Michigan, but no more or less than in other places. Another poster did bring up the Arab thing, with a large population there it has caused resentment. This only became an issue after 9-11. In short that problem is related to the war and to 9-11. If our relationship with the middle east ever improves, so will that problem. The kind of hatred you describe in upstate NY however is hard to find in the Midwest. Im actually surprised upstate NY is like that, I really did not know it was.
It isn't like that in Upstate NY and it is more of an indictment on those individuals than those communities, if these things really occurred. Ironically, you have same sex couples that move up here due to NY laws about same sex marriage and there are other parts of Syracuse with higher same sex percentages than the area the OP lived in(Westcott, Sunnycrest Park area of the Eastwood neighborhood and South Valley come to mind from research/experience). Same goes in terms of neighborhoods with higher Black percentages. So, it may be a matter of how well one knows the area or where to look. Personally, I'd look here if you are LGBTQ or want a more liberal community and are looking into Syracuse: UNPA - University Neighborhood Preservation Association

Another irony is that many small college or adjacent towns in the area will have its share of same sex households. So, even some smaller/rural areas will be more liberal than what is associated with such communities. You view such info on the maps in this post: http://www.city-data.com/forum/20804127-post1.html

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 11-29-2014 at 05:24 AM..
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:03 AM
 
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So I've been out of the country working for the last 2 weeks just now catching up on all my usual C-D things. It's always amusing how these things start off and where they end up. As a former resident of Michigan(my now adopted home state), as well as someone who was born in the Twin Cities I feel inclined to comment on a few things.

Michigan is really a state of opposites. You have the I-75 corridor from the Tri-Cities metro area down to the state line at Toledo which holds 5.7 million people. This is the manufacturing heavy, blue collar, rust belt stigmatized area that Michigan is defined by. It is also home to the worlds automotive brain trust and is rapidly transitioning from a manufacturing heavy economy to an R&D/STEM based economy. Still the stigma that permeates the region tends to dominate peoples opinions of the state, especially if those people have never been to experience it themselves. The polar opposite is out state Western Michigan. Its is rarely spoken of because it is so over shadowed by the heavily populated I-75 corridor. It is the states most rapidly emerging region growing at a rate faster than the national average both demographically, and economically.

Someone said that in order to compare Michigan and Minnesota you have to take out the Twin Cities and S.E. Michigan CSA's, I do not agree with this. Michigan without the Detroit area still has a number of Midsized metro areas all within 45mins-1hour from each other along I-96/94 with another 3.5 millionish people. MN without the Twin cities has a much smaller population. In that regard I'd say that Michigan is more similar to Upstate New York with it's numerous midsize-larger cities. I'd say Michigan also has a nationality legacy more similar to New York. In fact it was largely settled by New Yorkers, hence why there are so many Michigan cities and counties with New York names. The Nordic population used to compare it with MN is tiny and mostly confined to the Upper Peninsula.

In truth I can see this argument being made either way. However in current times I'd have to go with MN from the Midwest cultural aspects. Without cherry picking which areas to compare, New York is still Anchored by the NYC area which is very different from Michigan. Honestly outside of a hockey obsession the Twin Cities are probably more comparable to NYC than any place in Michigan. Michigan is a cul-de-sac, and as such has some idiosyncrasies among the populace that are unique to any region. Being surrounded on 3 sides by that much water isolates it from being influenced, especially in the last 30 years when it's population growth has been considerably slower. If anything it has more in common with Northern Ohio/ Indiana and MAYBE albeit loosely with Chicagoland.

Some Michigan myths I have seen in this thread:

Michigan is very susceptible to tornadoes, they happen frequently. The difference being the state doesn't get very many strong tornadoes the lakes act as a shield and often break up or weaken severe weather systems.

Western Michigan is more conservative, In the last 30 years it's grown at a rapid rate making the core cities more progressive, there purple and blue counties in the region.

Michigan is economically depressed, I think this one annoys me the most. Since the great recession no state has recovered faster, and it continues to do so. It still has a long way to go but it was in a 10 year recession before the housing crash. It was ranked 42nd for unemployment rates as of October, it still has a ways to go but has been recovering it's labor losses for 5 straight years. The western region of the state returned to peak unemployment at the end of 2012.
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Old 11-30-2014, 12:16 PM
 
56,595 posts, read 80,890,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
So I've been out of the country working for the last 2 weeks just now catching up on all my usual C-D things. It's always amusing how these things start off and where they end up. As a former resident of Michigan(my now adopted home state), as well as someone who was born in the Twin Cities I feel inclined to comment on a few things.

Michigan is really a state of opposites. You have the I-75 corridor from the Tri-Cities metro area down to the state line at Toledo which holds 5.7 million people. This is the manufacturing heavy, blue collar, rust belt stigmatized area that Michigan is defined by. It is also home to the worlds automotive brain trust and is rapidly transitioning from a manufacturing heavy economy to an R&D/STEM based economy. Still the stigma that permeates the region tends to dominate peoples opinions of the state, especially if those people have never been to experience it themselves. The polar opposite is out state Western Michigan. Its is rarely spoken of because it is so over shadowed by the heavily populated I-75 corridor. It is the states most rapidly emerging region growing at a rate faster than the national average both demographically, and economically.

Someone said that in order to compare Michigan and Minnesota you have to take out the Twin Cities and S.E. Michigan CSA's, I do not agree with this. Michigan without the Detroit area still has a number of Midsized metro areas all within 45mins-1hour from each other along I-96/94 with another 3.5 millionish people. MN without the Twin cities has a much smaller population. In that regard I'd say that Michigan is more similar to Upstate New York with it's numerous midsize-larger cities. I'd say Michigan also has a nationality legacy more similar to New York. In fact it was largely settled by New Yorkers, hence why there are so many Michigan cities and counties with New York names. The Nordic population used to compare it with MN is tiny and mostly confined to the Upper Peninsula.

In truth I can see this argument being made either way. However in current times I'd have to go with MN from the Midwest cultural aspects. Without cherry picking which areas to compare, New York is still Anchored by the NYC area which is very different from Michigan. Honestly outside of a hockey obsession the Twin Cities are probably more comparable to NYC than any place in Michigan. Michigan is a cul-de-sac, and as such has some idiosyncrasies among the populace that are unique to any region. Being surrounded on 3 sides by that much water isolates it from being influenced, especially in the last 30 years when it's population growth has been considerably slower. If anything it has more in common with Northern Ohio/ Indiana and MAYBE albeit loosely with Chicagoland.

Some Michigan myths I have seen in this thread:

Michigan is very susceptible to tornadoes, they happen frequently. The difference being the state doesn't get very many strong tornadoes the lakes act as a shield and often break up or weaken severe weather systems.

Western Michigan is more conservative, In the last 30 years it's grown at a rapid rate making the core cities more progressive, there purple and blue counties in the region.

Michigan is economically depressed, I think this one annoys me the most. Since the great recession no state has recovered faster, and it continues to do so. It still has a long way to go but it was in a 10 year recession before the housing crash. It was ranked 42nd for unemployment rates as of October, it still has a ways to go but has been recovering it's labor losses for 5 straight years. The western region of the state returned to peak unemployment at the end of 2012.
I think the taking out of the Detroit and Twin Cities areas have more to do with comparing MN and MI with Upstate NY instead comparing MN and MI.
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Old 11-30-2014, 08:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I think the taking out of the Detroit and Twin Cities areas have more to do with comparing MN and MI with Upstate NY instead comparing MN and MI.
I guess what I was saying is if you take out the core cities of all three states, Out-state Michigan has more in common with New York than Minnesota.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
I guess what I was saying is if you take out the core cities of all three states, Out-state Michigan has more in common with New York than Minnesota.
I agree, given the amount of areas of similar size in MI and NY outside of their biggest areas.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:16 AM
 
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Interestingly, I never hear anyone in Michigan talk about Minnesota. Yet I do hear people in Michigan talk about various areas of New York.

I do know Michigan has a relatively large Scandinavian heritage in the northern and northwest parts of the lower peninsula.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Desert_SW_77 View Post
My primary destination when visiting Upstate NY in the past was usually the mountain areas of the Adirondacks, or the gorges and waterfalls around Ithaca. In topographical terms Michigan doesn't really have an answer to either region to which Upstate NY is fairly well known for, and then throw Niagara Falls in for good measure. I'd have to say Michigan is probably more like Minnesota.

Michigan's upper peninsula has many waterfalls.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:18 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
Interestingly, I never hear anyone in Michigan talk about Minnesota. Yet I do hear people in Michigan talk about various areas of New York.

I do know Michigan has a relatively large Scandinavian heritage in the northern and northwest parts of the lower peninsula.
Strangely enough, I was talking to someone from Michigan a couple of weeks ago who went on a deer hunting trip to International Falls, MN. It stuck out to me because I think it was the first time I had ever heard of someone in MI taking a trip specifically to visit Minnesota for tourism reasons.
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