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Old 12-04-2014, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,754,146 times
Reputation: 2258

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
The world according to the city data forum:

Southern = that area of land located outside of Manhattan/Denver/San Francisco/Seattle/Chicago/Los Angeles/whichever city the group has a boner for this week. Inhabited by toothless moonshine drinking hillbillies that deer hunt and have 5 kids before the age of 25.
Yeah, what's with the Denver thing? That's something I only see on this site. In the real world no one (outside of Denver) even thinks about Denver. Unless it's football related.
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Old 12-04-2014, 01:11 PM
 
4,740 posts, read 8,804,955 times
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Tezcatlipoca - traditional southern cornbread is not made with sugar, so this indicates that your family is probably southern. As Southern man said, cornbread with sugar makes a pleasant dessert.

"...sugar has no business in cornbread.

Neither, for that matter, does wheat flour. One might make something quite tasty with well-sweetened wheat flour mixed with cornmeal, but be honest with yourself and call it a dessert. Cornbread is something else."

"Much of the sugar/no sugar debate comes down to how one's grandmother made cornbread (and my grandmother didn't let a speck of sugar enter her batter)."

""The North thinks it knows how to make cornbread, but this is gross superstition," Mark Twain wrote in his autobiography."

"In 1892, a Times correspondent, after enumerating the many types of corn-based breads eaten in Virginia, noted, "It will be observed that in none of them is sugar used. There are cornmeal puddings served with sweet sauces, but no Southern cook would risk the spoiling of her cornbreads by sweetening them.

In 1937, the Times reported that "cornbread in Kentucky is made with white, coarsely ground cornmeal. Never, never are sugar and wheat flour used in cornbread."

The Real Reason Sugar Has No Place in Cornbread | Serious Eats

annie_himself - born in New Orleans, live in Alabama, grandmothers in Kentucky and Tennessee.

Sugar is for tea, not cornbread!
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Outside of the United States
107 posts, read 118,351 times
Reputation: 74
Apart from quarrel about bread.

Pfalz - New York City was never segregated. The South once was but if you say that now it is, or that New York City is or was segragated, you definetely do not know what the term means.

What you are pointing out is racial distrubution in metropolitan areas. Nothing to do with segregation. More to do with desegragation which has been one of factor that caused the wiht flight. No one force those Whites or Blacks to settle in particular area. Making a ghetto today, racial or ethnical, is sovereign decision of people who are making it.

How can you even misunderstand that with segregation? And when desegregation happened - you will have to check it yourself, cause I regard it as obvious. You are more than wrong on a subject and I have hard time understanding how can you even misread those map in way of finging in them segregation. I try to be kind but maybe someone else will be not only kind enough but also patient enough to point out your error, which is as huge as saying that world is segregated because Blacks live predominantly in Africa and Whites live predominantly in Europe and Middle East.
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,754,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenisey View Post
Apart from quarrel about bread.
I was starting to wonder why this thread hadn't been moved to the Food and Drink forum. I mean, is this about what it means to be Southern today... or about the correct ingredients to use in cornbread?
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Old 12-04-2014, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Outside of the United States
107 posts, read 118,351 times
Reputation: 74
Its orginal purpouse was to to be about what it means to be Southern. But some may consider a certain way of making a bread a serious issue in being Southern. At least it appear so. Author of the thread cannot discipline its contributors to what to post. But if have some answer to the original topic, please share it with us, I will be glad.
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Old 12-04-2014, 05:57 PM
 
4,740 posts, read 8,804,955 times
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Yenisey - the discussion about cornbread directly relates to your OP:

"I know that the South had totally different society and was totally different place from the North in the past. Since the end of World War Second social and economical processes accelerated in the South, nearly to a point achieved already in the North, urbanizing and desegregating the area, and shifting, I assume, traditional Southern values and Southern way of life."

Food is one of the defining aspects of a region's culture. For example look at 'Garden and Gun' magazine; the food section is very prominent:

Garden and Gun | Soul of the South

Food features prominently in 'Southern Living' magazine (however Southern Living seems to have gone Yankee - their recipes for Skillet Cornbread from 2001 and 2006 do not include sugar; their recipe from 2013 includes 2 teaspoons of sugar):

Southern Living | The Best of the South

Traditional southern recipes give insight into southern culture - notice that many traditional southerners do not use sugar in their cornbread, versus northern recipes calling for sugar (for example Betty Crocker (General Mills from Minnesota) uses 1/2 cup of sugar).

Cornbread recipes illustrate your point that northern influences are "shifting" "the Southern way of life" in that sugar in cornbread is becoming more accepted by some southerners (or by transplants bringing their recipes South with them).

Last edited by Reactionary; 12-04-2014 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Outside of the United States
107 posts, read 118,351 times
Reputation: 74
Thank you, Reactionary. That is trully a new, refreshing point of view which opens one's mind. I was seeking the Northern influences in the South in urban sprawl, Democratic support, liberal laws, etc. And you had point out this process in cuisine.

And you showed me that Southerners really have an everyday life. And when comes to being Southern, it manifest also in things like nutrition.

And for someone who was looking at the South as a gentle culture, rootted deep in the antebellum United States, you just expanded a narrow, somewhat biased point of view. Appreciate it.
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Old 12-04-2014, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,774,924 times
Reputation: 8804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern man View Post
I'm sure recipes differ from family to family, but my Mother, my Mother in Law, and my wife don't put sugar in cornbread. I'll be having cornbread for supper tonight, with some fresh picked collards. The collards will have a small amount of sugar. I've eaten cornbread with sugar in it and it was a pretty good desert.
Different strokes for different folks.
Desert? You can barely taste the sugar, if you can taste it at all. I'm talking about a pinch of sugar here, not a cup.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Miami Metro
1,015 posts, read 1,303,675 times
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Because of migration from the North, it is hard to summarize in one sentence. Very religious, conservative.
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Oroville, California
3,225 posts, read 4,720,680 times
Reputation: 5641
Great-grandmother was from Alabama. Grandmother was from Arkansas. Mother is from Oklahoma (seems like they kept moving west every generation). Mom puts one tablespoon of sugar in a large pan of cornbread. Its not enough to make it sweet, its enough to make it taste right (as we eat it with our black eyed peas and ham hocks, turnip greens and fried potatoes) Its certainly not like that overly sweet Marie Callender's crap that's more like a piece of cake than cornbread.
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