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I know you probably don't mean it, but you seem to be implicitly linking Southern speech with a lack of education. Of course, this is the stereotype. I am wholly against it because I like Southern way of life and I think there is a difference between "education" and wisdom. The former more closely corresponds with the ideology of a follower of cosmopolitan and globalist elitism. And, as evidenced by the fact that you speak of "ignorant hicks," you give me the impression that you endorse this way of being as opposed to a more traditional and folkish way of life that is especially characteristic of the South. Wisdom, compared to "education," is something else entirely. Wisdom is rooted in tradition and experience rather than ideals; and the highest purpose of wisdom is the ability to live off the land, something that urban, cosmopolitan folks seem to lack and cannot see the true worth of.
LOL, not at all. I was saying exactly the opposite. I said that almost every southerner I've ever met IS educated and doesn't fit the stereotype.
You're reading a lot into my post that really isn't there. When I refer to ignorant hicks, I'm talking about close-minded, racist people, not folks who "live off the land" or are "traditional and folkish". The topic here is that such people are a stereotype of southerners and so by hearing the accent, some southern people have been treated as if they were ignorant, but my point was that ignorant people live everywhere and speak with all accents.
FWIW, I myself am not college-educated, so why would I look down on someone else who is not educated or consider education the only valid form of wisdom? My mother didn't finish tenth grade, but she is one of the wisest and most intelligent people I know and an excellent writer besides.
One of my all-time favorite quotations.
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and higher education positively fortifies it. Stephen Vizinczey, An Innocent Millionaire
I grew up with chickens in the backyard and horses living behind me and catching bullfrogs in the swamp in the woods at the end of my street, and I've got a sister who hunts and grows her own food. I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet that you have a very different idea from that about what New Jersey is like. What would you automatically imagine you know of ME if you heard ME tawk, I wonder?
LOL, not at all. I was saying exactly the opposite. I said that almost every southerner I've ever met IS educated and doesn't fit the stereotype.
I am attacking the stereotype itself on a more fundamental level. Southern expatriates who move to NYC and get into big business probably wouldn't fit the stereotype. Only the most anti-Southern of people would still hold it against them for having some vestige of Southern heritage left in their speech, despite approving of their likely cosmopolitan outlook on life. Who even knows whether such people exist? They would, after all, fundamentally contradict their own cosmopolitan outlook on life if they rejected someone for their background. And I was not accusing you of holding such an outlook. I was saying you seem to think Southern speech is okay as long as such speakers are "well educated business people" because such types are obviously good people. Would you say the same thing for Southerners who are proud of their heritage and don't follow this lifestyle? What about Southerners who are not college-educated and who live in trailer parks?
The kind of hatred many (not necessarily you in particular, but you used language similar to what such people would use) have for such authentic, rustic folks is disturbing to me. I know you didn't explicitly say this. But (though I'm young) I was not born yesterday. I've witnessed the kind of anti-rural and anti-folkish elitism that is often behind anti-Southern sentiments. Maybe it's just a pet peeve of mine. But why should such people have to prove they are not "ignorant hicks" in the first place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
You're reading a lot into my post that really isn't there. When I refer to ignorant hicks, I'm talking about close-minded, racist people, not folks who "live off the land" or are "traditional and folkish".
Many people seem to make no such distinction. And many more equate folkish beliefs with ignorance. It is not so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
I grew up with chickens in the backyard and horses living behind me and catching bullfrogs in the swamp in the woods at the end of my street, and I've got a sister who hunts and grows her own food. I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet that you have a very different idea from that about what New Jersey is like. What would you automatically imagine you know of ME if you heard ME tawk, I wonder?
Can you clarify what you mean here? It's not completely apparent to me. I'm very well aware that NJ is not completely urban. I live here, after all. I know what Middle America is and it is my America. In any case, I was responding to what you wrote. You accused me of reading too much into your post, but you seem to have done the same in response to me.
I am attacking the stereotype itself on a more fundamental Yu oulevel. Southern expatriates who move to NYC and get into big business probably wouldn't fit the stereotype. Only the most anti-Southern of people would still hold it against them for having some vestige of Southern heritage left in their speech, despite approving of their likely cosmopolitan outlook on life. Who even knows whether such people exist? They would, after all, fundamentally contradict their own cosmopolitan outlook on life if they rejected someone for their background. And I was not accusing you of holding such an outlook. I was saying you seem to think Southern speech is okay as long as such speakers are "well educated business people" because such types are obviously good people. Would you say the same thing for Southerners who are proud of their heritage and don't follow this lifestyle? What about Southerners who are not college-educated and who live in trailer parks?
The kind of hatred many (not necessarily you in particular, but you used language similar to what such people would use) have for such authentic, rustic folks is disturbing to me. I know you didn't explicitly say this. But (though I'm young) I was not born yesterday. I've witnessed the kind of anti-rural and anti-folkish elitism that is often behind anti-Southern sentiments. Maybe it's just a pet peeve of mine. But why should such people have to prove they are not "ignorant hicks" in the first place?
Many people seem to make no such distinction. And many more equate folkish beliefs with ignorance. It is not so.
Can you clarify what you mean here? It's not completely apparent to me. I'm very well aware that NJ is not completely urban. I live here, after all. I know what Middle America is and it is my America. In any case, I was responding to what you wrote. You accused me of reading too much into your post, but you seem to have done the same in response to me.
.
Ok, to be very clear: I have no opinion one way or another as to southern dialects. It is a matter of linguistics. I've rarely been in the south, so all I've got is what I've experienced and that does not seem to fit the general stereotype being discussed in this thread. I believe in taking people one on one, as individuals. I believe in this so strongly that i've written about it for publication, albeit in a different context than linguistic differences.
The last paragraph was written in response to what I perceived as assumptions in your previous post. If I misread your intent, I apologize.
For more information on regional dialects, I recommend John McWhorter's book The Power of Babel. It's written for the lay person and is entertaining as well as informative.
When I lived on the West Coast those type of women seemed to be intimidated (or perhaps it was just unbridled disrespect?) by me because I'm a "man's man" from the South/Southwest with an Oklahoma twang. I had to work 10x as hard to make traction at work, but when I did most of the disdain for the backward Okie seemed to subside.
And Amen on not talking about politics. Discussing the Pro-Life vs. Abortion issue was always an interesting and sometimes intense debate. It's better not to go there, at least at work where there were some femi-Nazis.
I think this kind of treatment is more widespread than known.
Yes, the media is mostly guilty for the stereotypes like trailer parks, low income white people, sub-par dental hygiene, pick-up trucks, swamp people, incomprehensible accents and slavery. A shame really, I met the friendliest, most helpful Americans in the South.
The media showcases what many people already believe. Stereotypes don't come out of nowhere. Many southern stereotypes are probably outdated, but few are based in reality, as much as many don't want to
admit it.
The media showcases what many people already believe. Stereotypes don't come out of nowhere. Many southern stereotypes are probably outdated, but few are based in reality, as much as many don't want to
admit it.
Like stereotypes about the UK?
Doesn't everyone there dress like Sid Vicious and have bad teeth?
I am from east TN and have lived in both IN and IA, and have gotten numerous comments all over the place on my heavy accent. I was also raised and spent some time in college in SC, so I have more of a full Southern accent than the average person from east TN.
Especially in IA, people treated me like I was an absolute idiot based on my accent. Sometimes people would lightly tease, but you could easily tell the difference between teasing and condescension. In IN, I get the same treatment, though less severe.
If you're a Southerner with an accent and are living outside the South, do people treat you like you're a buffoon?
don't worry about idiots from Iowa of all places
they're one of the few states/places that are stereotypically more backwards than the South is in the eyes of the rest of the nation
Iowa? really?
when I want to grow corn and live in a place where there is absolutely NOTHING literally for hundreds of miles then Iowa is the place
even here it's not like that.
a place like Iowa is one of the few populations that are more inbred than even kissing cousins in Appalachia
I would be insulted and hurt if someone from CA made fun of my accent.
I would be defensive and angry if a Long Island, NY, Bostonian or Joisy boy made fun of it
but Iowa? give me a break, what southerner would ever seriously give a crap what someone from Iowa thinks about us or how we talk? they're even worse than we are perceived to be.
you should laugh it off with an "Iowa? for real? are you KIDDING me? give me break." type of attitude.
one thing about it, at least Southerners are proud, We're proud of who we are and how we talk. we are a proud people period
cant say the same for Iowa. they have nothing to be proud of and it shows. They have just nothing at all period.
and you know, people actually move down here. Who the hell moves to Iowa? .......enough said.
and who cares about Indiana. It's not even on the map.
The media showcases what many people already believe. Stereotypes don't come out of nowhere. Many southern stereotypes are probably outdated, but few are based in reality, as much as many don't want to
admit it.
so says someone from the UK
yet another idiot who's never or hardly ever been here yet seems to think he knows jack sh*t about a place he's never been and people he's never met
god, this website has more ignorant people on it than stormfront
If you act like a fool, you will be treated like one
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What would you automatically imagine you know of ME if you heard ME tawk, I wonder?
) by me because I'm a "man's man" from the South/Southwest with an Oklahoma twang. I had to work 10x as hard to make traction at work, but when I did most of the disdain for the backward Okie seemed to subside.
