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View Poll Results: Do you think New England feels claustrophobic?
Yes 35 29.17%
No 85 70.83%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 06-13-2017, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Naples Island
1,014 posts, read 640,325 times
Reputation: 2035

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarbanzoBeans View Post
Yes, for a very specific type of biomass, which doesn't tell the whole story.

CT, MA and RI are literally no different than most of NJ.
As someone who grew up in Rhode Island, I respectfully disagree. New Jersey has a distinctly different character than the three Southern New England states; however, it may not be very noticeably to someone from outside of the Northeast.

In addition to being more densely populated than Connecticut, Massachusetts and Rhode Island (if you can even imagine), New Jersey is significantly more racially and ethnically diverse than any of the New England states. In 2017, New Jersey is less than 60% non-Hispanic white whereas all of the Southern New England states are 70% or more non-Hispanic white.

While the percentage of New Jersey residents who adhere to Roman Catholicism is around the same as in the three Southern New England states, the percentage of white Mainline Protestants is lower, indicating less colonial British ancestry and related legacies (i.e., politicians, institutions, public policies, etc.) overall.

None of the local accents you hear in New Jersey -- whether we're talking North or South -- sound anything like those in Southern New England. The classic North Jersey accent is essentially a rhotic New York City accent, and the South Jersey accent closely approximates the Philly accent. Both the New York and Philly accents share very little in common with Eastern and Western New England accents. Also, people from rural areas of South Jersey in particular sound more like Southerners than New Englanders, IMHO as a native New Englander who has lived and traveled all over the country.

Regarding the built environment, New Jersey has many more divided highways and multi-lane arterial thoroughfares and collector roads when compared to any of the New England states, similar to what you'd find in states further south and west. Additionally, New Jersey seems to have more in the way of cul-de-sac housing developments with names and decorated entrances.

Banks, restaurants, stores and other establishments and institutions that have a national presence are usually represented in New Jersey whereas that's often not the case in Southern New England, especially in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Although, in the past few years, I know that Rhode Island in particular has finally gotten a Chick-Fil-A, LA Fitness, Container Store, etc. Because Southern New England is more isolated from the rest of the country than New Jersey, and you essentially have to drive through the largest metropolitan area in America (NYC) to access most of the region, New England is a logistics nightmare, which is why many companies are simply unwilling to set up shop there. The narrow, windy roads that, in many areas, don't look like they've been paved in a solid 20-30 years certainly don't help matters in this case, either.

For the boaters and saltwater fisherman out there, high season in Central and South Jersey is 1-2 months longer than in Southern New England. Overall, beach/pool season is probably 1-2 months longer in most of New Jersey, too.

Finally, I notice a lot more luxury sedans and SUV's on the roads in New Jersey than in Southern New England, which leads me to believe that there's more inconspicuous consumption in New Jersey (maybe as a result of more high-income first- and second-generation Americans in New Jersey). Of course, YMMV.

Last edited by Bert_from_back_East; 06-13-2017 at 03:49 PM..
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Old 06-13-2017, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Olympia, Washington
1,258 posts, read 699,374 times
Reputation: 1123
Quote:
Originally Posted by nep321 View Post
I've been to the PNW during the summer and thought it was beautiful. But the only centers of employment in the accounting field are the Seattle/Olympia areas, which is very expensive and overpopulated for me. So forget it.
Seattle is expensive yes but Olympia is much more affordable as well being less populated (by a lot!). I'm originally from CT and also lived in NYC and NJ. I'm now in Olympia which is much cheaper than any of those other places I've lived by quite a bit. Not just rent either but utilities and car insurance as well.
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:15 PM
 
4,064 posts, read 3,095,603 times
Reputation: 5608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
As someone who grew up in Rhode Island, I respectfully disagree. New Jersey has a distinctly different character than the three Southern New England states; however, it may not be very noticeably to someone from outside of the Northeast.
I agree with your premise that New Jersey is very different from southern New England. However I would never group Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Connecticut together for any meaningful purpose beyond basic geographical categorization and perhaps colonial history. Connecticut is economically, culturally and socially linked with NYC whereas MA and RI are linked to Boston. While the old infrastructure and town layouts may have more in common with the rest of New England, that is just an artifact of history. Modern Connecticut has much more in common with New York and New Jersey than Massachusetts and virtually no meaningful connection to eastern Massachusetts.

Here is an example from pop culture. I live north of Boston and the Toyota commercials aired on TV around here will sometimes show a map of New England with Connecticut excluded. They don't see CT as part of the Boston area and in actuality it isn't part of the Boston area.
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Old 06-13-2017, 05:16 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,947,535 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan View Post
Modern Connecticut has much more in common with New York and New Jersey than Massachusetts and virtually no meaningful connection to eastern Massachusetts.

Here is an example from pop culture. I live north of Boston and the Toyota commercials aired on TV around here will sometimes show a map of New England with Connecticut excluded. They don't see CT as part of the Boston area and in actuality it isn't part of the Boston area.
why is connection to Boston relevant to connected to New England. Out here, we're more connected to Hartford than Boston. So? Fairfield County is more NYC-connected, the rest of Connecticut mostly not.
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Old 06-13-2017, 05:18 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,947,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarbanzoBeans View Post
The Adirondacks are larger than Vermont and New Hampshire. Whats your point?

Cherry picking a region within Upstate NY that has marginally less forestry than all of Massachusetts?

Southern New England is literally no different than New Jersey.

Northern New England is pretty different to Southern, which is more similar to the Adirondacks.
Umm, no. Have you been in southern New England? Very little here makes me think of New Jersey. Landscape isn't that close, except for maybe the far NW corner of New Jersey.
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Old 06-13-2017, 05:32 PM
 
115 posts, read 57,192 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
As someone who grew up in Rhode Island, I respectfully disagree. New Jersey has a distinctly different character than the three Southern New England states; however, it may not be very noticeably to someone from outside of the Northeast.

In addition to being more densely populated than Connecticut, Massachusetts and Rhode Island (if you can even imagine), New Jersey is significantly more racially and ethnically diverse than any of the New England states. In 2017, New Jersey is less than 60% non-Hispanic white whereas all of the Southern New England states are 70% or more non-Hispanic white.

While the percentage of New Jersey residents who adhere to Roman Catholicism is around the same as in the three Southern New England states, the percentage of white Mainline Protestants is lower, indicating less colonial British ancestry and related legacies (i.e., politicians, institutions, public policies, etc.) overall.

None of the local accents you hear in New Jersey -- whether we're talking North or South -- sound anything like those in Southern New England. The classic North Jersey accent is essentially a rhotic New York City accent, and the South Jersey accent closely approximates the Philly accent. Both the New York and Philly accents share very little in common with Eastern and Western New England accents. Also, people from rural areas of South Jersey in particular sound more like Southerners than New Englanders, IMHO as a native New Englander who has lived and traveled all over the country.

Regarding the built environment, New Jersey has many more divided highways and multi-lane arterial thoroughfares and collector roads when compared to any of the New England states, similar to what you'd find in states further south and west. Additionally, New Jersey seems to have more in the way of cul-de-sac housing developments with names and decorated entrances.

Banks, restaurants, stores and other establishments and institutions that have a national presence are usually represented in New Jersey whereas that's often not the case in Southern New England, especially in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Although, in the past few years, I know that Rhode Island in particular has finally gotten a Chick-Fil-A, LA Fitness, Container Store, etc. Because Southern New England is more isolated from the rest of the country than New Jersey, and you essentially have to drive through the largest metropolitan area in America (NYC) to access most of the region, New England is a logistics nightmare, which is why many companies are simply unwilling to set up shop there. The narrow, windy roads that, in many areas, don't look like they've been paved in a solid 20-30 years certainly don't help matters in this case, either.

For the boaters and saltwater fisherman out there, high season in Central and South Jersey is 1-2 months longer than in Southern New England. Overall, beach/pool season is probably 1-2 months longer in most of New Jersey, too.

Finally, I notice a lot more luxury sedans and SUV's on the roads in New Jersey than in Southern New England, which leads me to believe that there's more inconspicuous consumption in New Jersey (maybe as a result of more high-income first- and second-generation Americans in New Jersey). Of course, YMMV.

1) I'm from the Albany, NY area.

2) I'm talking about scenery.

3) I used to live in New Jersey.

In other words, spare yourself. Connecticut operates in the same way New Jersey does. Wealthy suburbs, beaches, and lush green with crime-ridden cities (Newark, Hartford, etc.) Culturally split between New York and Philadelphia/Boston.

One of my good friends is from New Haven and moved to Philadelphia several years ago. I've seen a lot. He is the one who basically planted this seed.
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Old 06-13-2017, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,680 posts, read 49,437,227 times
Reputation: 19129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan View Post
... Here is an example from pop culture. I live north of Boston and the Toyota commercials aired on TV around here will sometimes show a map of New England with Connecticut excluded. They don't see CT as part of the Boston area and in actuality it isn't part of the Boston area.
Boston is not in Connecticut, so obviously in the 'Boston area'. Not any more than it is in the 'Charleston area' or the Houston area.

Can we get back to talking about New England now?

If a mapmaker were to exclude things it might be more appropriate for a New England map to exclude Boston.
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Old 06-13-2017, 05:36 PM
 
115 posts, read 57,192 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Umm, no. Have you been in southern New England? Very little here makes me think of New Jersey. Landscape isn't that close, except for maybe the far NW corner of New Jersey.

Once again. Born and raised in Upstate NY. Albany area. Been to 44/50 states. Lived and schooled in New Jersey.

For the second time, save yourself the sermon.

North Jersey and Central Jersey are no different than Connecticut.

Densely populated, culturally split between two major metros, wealthy suburbs, crime-ridden cities, lush and green, beaches, etc.

Somewhere, Californians look at this conversation and laugh their ****ing asses off. Or any Westerner for that matter. They have ****ing counties that are larger than most New England/Mid-Atlantic states.

Cause "we're so ****ing different over here."
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Old 06-13-2017, 06:37 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,132 posts, read 9,903,738 times
Reputation: 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
As someone who grew up in Rhode Island, I respectfully disagree. New Jersey has a distinctly different character than the three Southern New England states; however, it may not be very noticeably to someone from outside of the Northeast.

In addition to being more densely populated than Connecticut, Massachusetts and Rhode Island (if you can even imagine), New Jersey is significantly more racially and ethnically diverse than any of the New England states. In 2017, New Jersey is less than 60% non-Hispanic white whereas all of the Southern New England states are 70% or more non-Hispanic white.

While the percentage of New Jersey residents who adhere to Roman Catholicism is around the same as in the three Southern New England states, the percentage of white Mainline Protestants is lower, indicating less colonial British ancestry and related legacies (i.e., politicians, institutions, public policies, etc.) overall.

None of the local accents you hear in New Jersey -- whether we're talking North or South -- sound anything like those in Southern New England. The classic North Jersey accent is essentially a rhotic New York City accent, and the South Jersey accent closely approximates the Philly accent. Both the New York and Philly accents share very little in common with Eastern and Western New England accents. Also, people from rural areas of South Jersey in particular sound more like Southerners than New Englanders, IMHO as a native New Englander who has lived and traveled all over the country.

Regarding the built environment, New Jersey has many more divided highways and multi-lane arterial thoroughfares and collector roads when compared to any of the New England states, similar to what you'd find in states further south and west. Additionally, New Jersey seems to have more in the way of cul-de-sac housing developments with names and decorated entrances.

Banks, restaurants, stores and other establishments and institutions that have a national presence are usually represented in New Jersey whereas that's often not the case in Southern New England, especially in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Although, in the past few years, I know that Rhode Island in particular has finally gotten a Chick-Fil-A, LA Fitness, Container Store, etc. Because Southern New England is more isolated from the rest of the country than New Jersey, and you essentially have to drive through the largest metropolitan area in America (NYC) to access most of the region, New England is a logistics nightmare, which is why many companies are simply unwilling to set up shop there. The narrow, windy roads that, in many areas, don't look like they've been paved in a solid 20-30 years certainly don't help matters in this case, either.

For the boaters and saltwater fisherman out there, high season in Central and South Jersey is 1-2 months longer than in Southern New England. Overall, beach/pool season is probably 1-2 months longer in most of New Jersey, too.

Finally, I notice a lot more luxury sedans and SUV's on the roads in New Jersey than in Southern New England, which leads me to believe that there's more inconspicuous consumption in New Jersey (maybe as a result of more high-income first- and second-generation Americans in New Jersey). Of course, YMMV.
Good post and rate up, although I partially disagree with you.

This is because while there are differences between New Jersey and southern New England, there are also similarities. It is sort of like the question - is the glass of water half full or half empty? In other words, people who look for similarities will see them while people who want to see differences will find them. The reality is probably somewhere in between.
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:21 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,728,729 times
Reputation: 30796
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarbanzoBeans View Post

Somewhere, Californians look at this conversation and laugh their ****ing asses off. Or any Westerner for that matter. They have ****ing counties that are larger than most New England/Mid-Atlantic states.

Cause "we're so ****ing different over here."
So true. It seems many New Englanders are obsessed with gatekeeping who or what is authentic New England and how different New England is from the rest of the Northeast.

It is true that New England has its own characteristics and history, but realtive to American culture at large, it is superficial minutia. Comoared to the rest of the country, everything noryh of D.C. and east of Cleveland is pretty much the same thing just as people lump Southern culture or the Southwest.
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