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Old 12-11-2014, 11:34 AM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,502,634 times
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^ The pioneers came before the pilgrims, so they would have
just blended in, most likely, with the other Virginia colonists.
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Old 12-11-2014, 01:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Clavin View Post
The Patriots would have won Super Bowl XLII and completed an undefeated season.
No, they would have lost to the Philadelphia Giants (the other Philly team)
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Old 12-11-2014, 05:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
A large chunk of the hubbub of NYC would likely be concentrated in Philly and the Delaware Valley. All I can say is thank God there is a NYC: I like Philly the way it is.
I'm not sure about that, all of NJ and Long Island and even coastal Delaware is closer to the ocean (necessary to NYC's development and growth) than Philly. IMO, "NYC" would exist elsewhere on LI, somewhere along NJ's coast, including the NJ side of the Hudson, or even DE/the DE Bay before up the DE River in Philadelphia. I think it's unlikely NO city like NYC would have been built from what's now NYC down to the DE Bay. That coastal region is too clutch.
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Old 12-11-2014, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities (StP)
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New Amsterdam would still be here.
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Old 12-13-2014, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Columbia, MD
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Without the influence and existence of greater NYC I would assume that Philly would have taken its place. Baltimore would have morphed into the Philly of today and the capital would have shifted ever so south towards Richmond. But I guess we will never really know.
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Old 03-09-2015, 03:19 AM
 
Location: Prince George's County, Maryland
6,212 posts, read 7,403,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Its hard to believe that there would not be at least some city would not be located when a major river enters the ocean.

Still for the purpose of argument, if New York City did not exist (or perhaps more likely just be smaller) then....

1. Philadelphia would be larger. Probably Baltimore also, however Baltimore might be negatively effected by a larger Philadelphia. Not sure about that.

2. The Philadelphia and Baltimore suburbs would cover much of SE Pennsylvania, southern New Jersey, and much of Delaware. Philadelphia, Baltimore and DC would be even more connected then they are today.

3. Boston might be larger too but not as much difference as Philadelphia. However, without NYC Boston would be even more of a outlier of the Bos-Wash corridor then it is today.

4. Norfolk, VA which has one of the best East Coast ports would be larger. The surrounding area would be much more built up.

5. Long Island would be thought as a offshore resort island, a extra larger version of Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard, with beaches, seaside farms and old seaports.

6. Northern New Jersey would be far less built up and with its hills, farms and colonial era towns would have a reputation as a beautiful area. However, central and southern New Jersey would still be heavily suburbanized because of a larger Philadelphia.
Interesting scenario.
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Old 03-09-2015, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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But a city would have been settled there,or a village would have flourished there, even if the Dutch hadn't done it themselves. New York is a good natural harbor, with access to inland waterways, and in those times, commerce clustered where the natural resources were the most favorable to commercial needs. It is impossible to imagine that any of the world's ideal natural harbors in the midst of economic development would never have been exploited. The area of New York City would never have been left alone for farmers to settle while commercial needs looked elsewhere. New York City grew into the great center of America precisely because it was perfectly situated to do so. Vectors are not so easily deflected.

Historical events happened because they needed to, not out of accident or the drive of a single mover. The slaves needed to be freed when they were, and Lincoln happened to be the man behind the desk at the time. Several men "invented the automobile" pretty much simultaneously, when the technology crescendoed. If those men hadn't existed, it would have been done by somebody else.

Last edited by jtur88; 03-09-2015 at 11:46 AM..
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Old 03-09-2015, 11:38 AM
 
Location: The City
22,341 posts, read 32,215,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I'm not sure about that, all of NJ and Long Island and even coastal Delaware is closer to the ocean (necessary to NYC's development and growth) than Philly. IMO, "NYC" would exist elsewhere on LI, somewhere along NJ's coast, including the NJ side of the Hudson, or even DE/the DE Bay before up the DE River in Philadelphia. I think it's unlikely NO city like NYC would have been built from what's now NYC down to the DE Bay. That coastal region is too clutch.
a lot was contingent on the ports - NYC being the best

Baltimore is much further inland. Boston is good but frozen more often those further south

Philadelphia actually has a good port but in between Baltimore and Boston in time to access once in the bay
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Old 03-09-2015, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Philadelphia would've filled the void. Baltimore would be a larger and more important city today. Boston would still be the same.
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,456 posts, read 11,963,283 times
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As I said upthread, a fairly sizable city where NYC is is a given. However, if you managed to scuttle the Erie Canal somehow, you could ensure that NYC was a smaller-scale city - something more similar to Boston or Philadelphia in size, and not the major metropolis of today.

As for what could take the place of New York, the only logical answer would be Montreal, given with an earlier Saint Lawrence Seaway all of the riverine traffic from the Great Lakes would flow through there. An outside possibility is the canals linking Washington DC to Pittsburgh (which began being planned in the late 18th century) actually were completed, allowing DC to become a much more significant trading nexus. Although unlike the Erie Canal, a lot of the flow of goods would have to go upriver through the Ohio and Monongahela, which would add to costs considerably.
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