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Old 12-16-2014, 09:05 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
29,777 posts, read 54,440,540 times
Reputation: 31078

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Yes, pretty much. Seattle is a good example. Not only did they elect a socialist council member, but overwhelmingly for Obama in 2012. Statewide, Obama won by only 14%, in King County (which includes Seattle) by 40%.
The suburbs east of Seattle tend to be socially liberal, fiscally conservative.
If the Republicans promoted gay rights, abortion, and labor unions they would take the entire state.


Cities won the 2012 election for President Obama — UrbanCincy

Quicklink: Only four major cities voted Republican in the 2012 presidential election | OpEdNews
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Outside of the United States
107 posts, read 118,308 times
Reputation: 74
Yes, I have told that there are some conservative Democrats, especially socially conservative but want federal direction over economy.

And yes, I have heard about Joe Lieberman.

But as you pick Dinos, we can also pick Rinos (Yes, I know those two terms do not have universal ati or pro liberal or conservative meaning, I do not see this as black and white polarization) and so on, and this proves nothing. Democrats have their factions, just like Republicans, but what is the strongest connection?

You cannot deny it, look at this, this is a very solid research, those guys are making firm analysis in brief:

The Political Typology: Beyond Red vs. Blue | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,759,815 times
Reputation: 8803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenisey View Post
Show were I stated this then.

Or maybe your point is that liberals are Republican leaning?

I do understand that Democrat does not mean liberal as far as Republican does not mean conservative. But both Democracts and Republicans have their major base. And this is liberals and conservatives accordingly. There is a direct and huge connection beetwen liberals and Demoracts, that not exist between Repulicans and liberals. Democratic Party openly is based on ideology of American Liberalism, and, for example, socially conservative voters that support more regulation in economy, are marginal base for the party.

Do not you see states in those most people identify themself as liberals are strongly Democratic in elections? Do not you see that areas where liberalism is thriwing are overwhemingly Democrat, like New England? Will you tell me that most New Englanders are socially conservative?

Modern liberalism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyone knows that Democratic does not mean liberal and Republicans get their base both from social conservatives and libertarians.

Like it or not, Democrats champion liberalism and Republicans champion conservatism. Look at any poll, any data, either Gallup or what you like.

Goodness...
I understand all of this. I also understand that many Democrats are not liberal at all. Cities like Baton Rouge will vote blue, but oppose gay marriage and other liberal ideals.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Outside of the United States
107 posts, read 118,308 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I understand all of this. I also understand that many Democrats are not liberal at all. Cities like Baton Rouge will vote blue, but oppose gay marriage and other liberal ideals.
I am glad. This is huge discussion about Democrats and Republicans, but main point is there tend to be liberal and conservative. And in this tendence in first-past-the-post organization is making everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
Oklahoma City, Phoenix, Jacksonville, Fort Worth, and Salt Lake City for starters.

If you don't believe me then feel free to do your own research.
Of course, I usally do research before posting.

Salt Like City - I have comment before
Fort Worth - I do not know that it was more liberal, thank you, that is also for what I stared this thread. For knowledge for all of us.
Oklahoma City - One can guess. Oklahoma is pretty red, is it not?
Pheonix - nearly gone for Obama. I think Phenix is evenly liberal and conservative, and as for being really big, it will favor mostly liberal and Democratic causes in near future, and Republicans will be lost there.
Jacksonville - interesting, I will read, as far as my knowledge today reaches, the only thing I know about Jacksonville is they are the largest city i U.S. by area and have A. Jackson, beloved Democrat and Indian enemy, statue, to prove their namesake.

Also, to support my thesis, and show that not only I see things as in the topic, please, read this:
http://www.debt.org/faqs/americans-i...ics-democrats/

For those not interested in reading full article, a short statement, the most important thing in brief:
"Democrats dominate the more populated, urban centers, while suburbs lean Republican, and rural areas are almost exclusively Republican. This trend is nearly universal, even in deep-red states like Texas and dark blue states like Massachusetts.

If an area has more than 500,000 people, it will go Democrat about 60 percent of the time. The political balance is even in areas with 50,000 to 500,000 people, and then turns decidedly in the Republicans’ favor at population levels below 50,000."

Last edited by Yenisey; 12-16-2014 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,751,604 times
Reputation: 2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenisey View Post
Of course, I usally do research before posting.

Salt Like City - I have comment before
Fort Worth - I do not know that it was more liberal, thank you, that is also for what I stared this thread. For knowledge for all of us.
Oklahoma City - One can guess. Oklahoma is pretty red, is it not?
Pheonix - nearly gone for Obama. I think Phenix is evenly liberal and conservative, and as for being really big, it will favor mostly liberal and Democratic causes in near future, and Republicans will be lost there.
Jacksonville - interesting, I will read, as far as my knowledge today reaches, the only thing I know about Jacksonville is they are the largest city i U.S. by area and have A. Jackson, beloved Democrat and Indian enemy, statue, to prove their namesake.
OK, I think we hit a language barrier here. Those cities voted majority Rebublican in the last presidential election... NOT Democrat. Maybe not Jacksonville, but I know Jacksonville is a pretty right-leaning, conservative city.

You asked, no... more like told me to list some larger right-leaning U.S. metros, and that's exactly what I did.

By the way, since you mentioned Andrew Jackson... you do know that until as recently as the late 1960's that the Democratic party got nearly all of the very conservative bible-belt vote, right? Conversely, in Andrew Jackson's day the Republican party was the party of progressives. The two parties are much different animals today than what they were even 50 years ago.

Just some food for thought.
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Outside of the United States
107 posts, read 118,308 times
Reputation: 74
I beg you pardon and apologize! It is me, who was mistaken. In fact I comment on Phoenix and Oklahoma City as it was Republican city, and Fort Worth as it was Democratic.

Well, you mention metros, and metors are cities proper with suburbia, more cities, towns, and the Combined Statistical Areas even more of it.

We are not discussing MSA or CSA here. We are discussing cities. Only.

As for if we would discuss MSA they may be overwhelmingly Republican, because suburban and towns areas then included would overcome cities proper.

And yes, for the history reminder.
I really foung American history, especially political history in 19th, very interesting. You may check my history threads if you want. Of course, the Solid South, the Conservative Coalition, the Carpetbaggers, the Scalwags, the Yellow Dog Democracts are all fairly known terms to me.

And for Jackon's days progressivnes of Demcratic Party. There were more agrarians (hey, Jackson was a wealthy slaveholder from Tennessee!), no federal supervision (especially Jackson himself with destruction of second Central Bank and veto-it-all approach to Wig legislation), and similar as much socially conservative as the Wigs. Really, back then social issues were to far less extent matter of politics, especially federal, the first major social issue being slavery, and after it only Proggresives of T. Roosevelt and T. W. Wilson championed social issues. Back in the 19th century federal politics, also due to its far more less power, was centered on more important issues. And in the United States sociall issues finally arrived with the same importance as other as late as New Deal and Great Society Era, FDR and LBJ respectively, LBJ's and JFK's Civil Roghts Act of 1964, which shifted so much and was in fact rooted back in slavery-related issues.
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:33 AM
 
56,595 posts, read 80,890,793 times
Reputation: 12505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
OK, I think we hit a language barrier here. Those cities voted majority Rebublican in the last presidential election... NOT Democrat. Maybe not Jacksonville, but I know Jacksonville is a pretty right-leaning, conservative city.

You asked, no... more like told me to list some larger right-leaning U.S. metros, and that's exactly what I did.

By the way, since you mentioned Andrew Jackson... you do know that until as recently as the late 1960's that the Democratic party got nearly all of the very conservative bible-belt vote, right? Conversely, in Andrew Jackson's day the Republican party was the party of progressives. The two parties are much different animals today than what they were even 50 years ago.

Just some food for thought.
^This and there was a reason for the term of Dixiecrat.
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:37 AM
 
Location: VB
420 posts, read 363,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
About the only cities I think that would fit that description would be western cities such as Salt Lake City or Phoenix or Colorado Springs. And plains cities like OKC, Tulsa, Wichita, Lincoln.

I bet not a single urban county went for Romney in 2012 east of the plains.
I guess it doesn't count, but Virginia Beach City did. (Virginia's independent cities are functionally equivalent to its counties.)
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities (StP)
3,017 posts, read 1,871,010 times
Reputation: 2342
Joe Manchin is the only Democrat that I could say is definitely not Liberal.
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,419 posts, read 11,923,391 times
Reputation: 10536
Bunch of misleading statements in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewww View Post
Huge landmark city? yes. bc they are mostly full of poor non-whites who see Democratic voting as a hand-out.

cities full of working class white people?

Nearly all of them are Republican.
I have lived in Pittsburgh, which is arguably the most working-class white large city left in the country. Only Portland Seattle have a higher non-Hispanic White population. Obama still won every single neighborhood in 2012 (note, there are 90 of them). He may have lost one or two in 2008 - McCain ran a bit better than Romney in the working-class white areas in and near the city.

Of course, Pittsburgh is an outlier. If you go somewhere like New York, there are plenty of working-class white neighborhoods which lean Republican. It's even enough to sway elections in some cases. You can find similar Republican enclaves to a limited extent in parts of Philadelphia, but it's not enough to actually elect a Republican mayor of course.

Regardless, I'm scratching my head trying to come up with legit working-class white Republican cities. Lincoln, Nebraska is whiter than Pittsburgh, but I'm pretty sure Obama won it in both 2008 and 2012, albeit by small margins. Could you provide some examples of what you mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
Many socially conservative people vote Democrat. They're not liberals. Conversely, many liberals don't vote Democrat or Republican, but do vote third party (Green party, Justice party for example). Liberals are obviously going to vote Dem before they vote GOP in most cases, but being liberal doesn't mean you just blindly vote by party. There are way too many conservative Dem politicians to just blindly vote Democrat, if you're truly liberal.
At the same time (I'm not saying you're saying this) too many people seem to intimate that most nonwhites are not liberal, but when you look at opinion polls, that just isn't true. Blacks are moderately less supportive of same-sex marriage than whites, and Latinos are moderately less pro-choice than whites (although the difference vanishes by the second/third generation). On every other hot-button issue, though, they tend to be social liberals. They oppose the death penalty, think the criminal justice system is too draconian, want more gun control, want affirmative action retained, think addressing global warming is a top priority, etc. And of course on economic issues, they tend to lean far to the left of center in most cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenisey View Post
Like it or not, Democrats champion liberalism and Republicans champion conservatism. Look at any poll, any data, either Gallup or what you like.
Republicans champion conservatism, but with a few exceptions elected Democrats do not champion "liberalism." They tend to tack to the center (both rhetorically and policy wise) in an effort to woo moderates much more than Republicans do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
Oklahoma City, Phoenix, Jacksonville, Fort Worth, and Salt Lake City for starters.
Some people would argue that these aren't good comparisons to most cities outside the Sun Belt, because they have broad city limits and annexed many right-wing suburbs which in other parts of the country would have become independent towns.

Indeed, the case of Indianapolis is interesting. Traditionally governed by a Republican urban machine (yes, those existed) in the 1960s the Party was concerned with the rising black population within the city, they would lose their political hold. They thus engineered a city-county merger, bringing all of the right-wing suburban voters back into city limits. As a result the Republicans had an unquestioned hold on power in Indianapolis until around 2000.

Of course, suburbs do vote differently in different parts of the country. In New England, even the suburbs tend to be moderately Democratic, whereas in much of the South you would be hard-pressed to find any white Democratic suburban neighborhoods at all. But the suburbs are less Democratic voting virtually everywhere, so the more of them you include in city limits, the more a city will shift to the right.

It should be said that in general, there are vanishingly few Republican structurally urban neighborhoods anywhere in the country. In the modern era, people who self-identify as conservative tend to display very strong preferences towards open space, which may explain some of the disparity. As I said though, there are some old "white ethnic" enclaves in major U.S. cities which tend to lean moderately Republican. Probably the biggest outlier are the ultra-Orthodox Hasidic neighborhoods in NYC, which vote federally 80%-90% Republican. They vote single-issue on Israel however, and on the state level will generally support whoever gives their community the most money without paying much attention to ideology.
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