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Old 07-30-2015, 01:28 PM
 
211 posts, read 172,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
I've always felt that St. Louis had an underlying Southern genteel about it. I think what makes St. Louis a "Midwestern" city today is the obviously large German influence and industrious past, but also there seems to be a hardness/abrasiveness about the area that isnt found anywhere in the true South. I cant really describe it, but St. Louis feels more weathered and gritty than most Southern cities and even most other Midwestern cities, with the exception of Cleveland and Detroit.
I can see how someone from the Great Lakes or east coast would say STL is "down South," as I have had several family members refer to it as such. Compared to northern IL and points north and adjacent, the accents are somewhat thicker, it's SLIGHTLY warmer on a consistent basis, and a few STL rappers went through their phase in the mid 2000's when they cloned (quite well) the crunk sound coming out of Atlanta and aligned themselves rather closely with that city's hip hop scene. I've also noticed more black folks from STL with gold teeth and/or dreads, which are traits associated with, but hardly exclusive to, blacks from down south.

There's also the historical context when STL practically was the dividing line between North & South and, like much of Missouri during the Civil War, went through an identity crisis. So it all makes sense that STL would give off a southern lite vibe to some, but I feel one of the biggest things that gives STL so much more of a Midwest/Great Lakes/eastern lite energy is that very hardiness and grittiness that you mentioned. That vibe is hard to find outside of a handful of pockets in the south, even in the biggest cities. Louisville and Birmingham are great exceptions.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:23 PM
 
570 posts, read 390,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_Watts View Post
There's also the historical context when STL practically was the dividing line between North & South and, like much of Missouri during the Civil War, went through an identity crisis. So it all makes sense that STL would give off a southern lite vibe to some, but I feel one of the biggest things that gives STL so much more of a Midwest/Great Lakes/eastern lite energy is that very hardiness and grittiness that you mentioned. That vibe is hard to find outside of a handful of pockets in the south, even in the biggest cities. Louisville and Birmingham are great exceptions.

There is nothing southern about St Louis. There never was anything southern about St Louis. Even during the Civil War it was a nest of Yankees. That's why Confederate Gen. Sterling Price wanted to burn St. Louis to the ground (like Atlanta), until the Battle of Pilot Knob tripped him up.

During the Civil War, the fighting in Missouri wasn't north vs. south. It was east vs. west. The St Louis area supported the Union. The western half of the state from Jefferson City to Kansas City was the Confederacy.
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Old 07-31-2015, 09:13 AM
 
Location: KCMO
634 posts, read 470,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDM66 View Post
There is nothing southern about St Louis. There never was anything southern about St Louis. Even during the Civil War it was a nest of Yankees. That's why Confederate Gen. Sterling Price wanted to burn St. Louis to the ground (like Atlanta), until the Battle of Pilot Knob tripped him up.

During the Civil War, the fighting in Missouri wasn't north vs. south. It was east vs. west. The St Louis area supported the Union. The western half of the state from Jefferson City to Kansas City was the Confederacy.
Actually, the fighting in Missouri was North vs South. Kansas City and Columbia ( look up origin of The Missouri "Tigers) were unionist strongholds. The confederates were mostly based in the south around Springfield and Nixa.
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Old 07-31-2015, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Calera, AL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
So now not even Alabama is not Southern enough. It's down to Mississippi. The last Southern state.
A huge part of that is Mississippi is one of the least industrialized and heavily rural states, and the folks that live there'll be damned if any of that changes. In many ways it's perpetually stuck in neutral, so to speak. It doesn't bleed out a lot of people like some Midwestern and Northeastern states, but it also has a very low level of in-migration too. So basically, if you're born in MS, you will likely die in MS.

That said, although Mississippi doesn't offer the educational or career opportunities that most other states provide, it is very rich in history, cuisine, and Southern culture (it was one of the first havens of blues, country, and rock music... and even now there's a respectable hip-hop scene). This is exactly why Mississippians love their state and wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. They may never attract a lot of high-paying, high-tech jobs but a lot of them are perfectly fine with that.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:18 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,922,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_Watts View Post
I can see how someone from the Great Lakes or east coast would say STL is "down South," as I have had several family members refer to it as such. Compared to northern IL and points north and adjacent, the accents are somewhat thicker, it's SLIGHTLY warmer on a consistent basis, and a few STL rappers went through their phase in the mid 2000's when they cloned (quite well) the crunk sound coming out of Atlanta and aligned themselves rather closely with that city's hip hop scene. I've also noticed more black folks from STL with gold teeth and/or dreads, which are traits associated with, but hardly exclusive to, blacks from down south.

There's also the historical context when STL practically was the dividing line between North & South and, like much of Missouri during the Civil War, went through an identity crisis. So it all makes sense that STL would give off a southern lite vibe to some, but I feel one of the biggest things that gives STL so much more of a Midwest/Great Lakes/eastern lite energy is that very hardiness and grittiness that you mentioned. That vibe is hard to find outside of a handful of pockets in the south, even in the biggest cities. Louisville and Birmingham are great exceptions.
The times I have been to St. Louis I got a very southern vibe from the people there...not necessarily the accents (which were not all that un-southern) but just the courtesy and friendliness and the overall atmosphere. I know that will offend some people who don't like to be associated with the South, but that is how I saw it. I'm not saying St. Louis is southern, but I definitely got a southern vibe there.

I think that the regional boundaries become more and more blurred as time moves on. Media and communications has made the world a smaller place, so regional differences have become much less pronounced; food, accents, traditions, etc. are all much more interchangeable now than 25 years ago.
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Old 07-31-2015, 02:24 PM
Status: "could've~would've~should've used 'have', not 'of'" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,456 posts, read 14,303,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
The times I have been to St. Louis I got a very southern vibe from the people there...not necessarily the accents (which were not all that un-southern) but just the courtesy and friendliness and the overall atmosphere. I know that will offend some people who don't like to be associated with the South, but that is how I saw it. I'm not saying St. Louis is southern, but I definitely got a southern vibe there.

I think that the regional boundaries become more and more blurred as time moves on. Media and communications has made the world a smaller place, so regional differences have become much less pronounced; food, accents, traditions, etc. are all much more interchangeable now than 25 years ago.
Agree. Having grown up in the upper midwest St Louis does not have that same kind of midwest vibe to it. There is just a hint of southerness to it, although to most other southerners it's almost undetectable.
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Old 07-31-2015, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
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Really anything north of say Walton KY gets into suburban Cincy. Louisville feels Southern to me.
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:08 AM
 
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From my one sole weekend in St. Louis about 10 years ago, I'd say that it was thoroughly Midwestern. I suspect that if you drive 1-2 hours south, you'd see a bit of a change..
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Old 08-01-2015, 12:11 PM
 
890 posts, read 1,078,796 times
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St. Louis in general is much more like its Rusbelt counterparts than any city in the Mid-South or South. STL and Cleveland are VERY similar in almost every way. St. Louis and Baltimore also have a lot in common, so maybe that kind of north/south identity crisis is detectable, but it's much more of a northern industrial city than a southern city.
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Old 08-01-2015, 12:16 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,922,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
St. Louis in general is much more like its Rusbelt counterparts than any city in the Mid-South or South. STL and Cleveland are VERY similar in almost every way. St. Louis and Baltimore also have a lot in common, so maybe that kind of north/south identity crisis is detectable, but it's much more of a northern industrial city than a southern city.
I wouldn't be so quick to try and align my city with Cleveland. Is that really better than being considered a bit southern?

How about being similar to a southern industrial city? You may be forgetting a couple of southern cities that St. Louis resembles...
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