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Southeast Missouri is undoubtedly the south. That is because demographically the vast majority of southeast Missourians are of Scots-Irish decent coming into the US via VA or NC during the 1600-1700s. Those folks eventually moved west through TN and KY before finally settling in the Bootheel. The terrain here is more conducive to row cropping another tie we have with the South and a big reason why southerners settled the area. The bootheel produces most of the state's cotton, rice, and watermelons. The area is very rural and hasn't had a lot of influence from other people because people don't have much reason to move here, so it's a nice little preserved pocket of southern culture. The way of life here is identical to pretty much all the rest of the rural south because of reasons stemming from the facts stated above. I would agree that highway 60 in Missouri is a good border line and north of sixty the southern culture starts to fade out, by the time you hit Cape you're pretty much out of the south imo. Cape feels pretty midwestern compared to the bootheel.
Last edited by Zach.USCG; 07-29-2015 at 09:37 PM..
Growing up in Northern Illinois and living in Western MO, Carbondale (and Cape, for that matter) doesn't feel deep south like Jackson, Atlanta, or Baton Rouge, but still feels markedly different from the rest of the Midwest. Carbondale (and Cape, which share the same media mkt) sits comfortably in the transition zone between Midwest and south.
The twangs become thicker, demographics change (higher % of blacks in rural areas), and it's still consistently several degrees warmer during the winter, with much less snowfall. Folks in the Chicago area would certainly consider places like Carbondale and Cape "south," although it's much more likely "Mid-South."
In the case of Missouri, south of US 60 is the south for sure. I'm less sure about US 50 being the northern transition boundary, as it runs well within both metro KC & STL. Areas adjacent to and including South (STL) County, south KCMO/Grandview, and JOCO, KS, don't feel southern by any stretch. Neither does Jeff City, which is bisected by 50. I'd say the transition begins further south. At least in western MO, I notice the beginning of the topographical transition just past Joplin's south side and by the time I'm in McDonald County, I've left the Midwest for sure. I'd agree The accents do start to become thicker further north, however.
Memphis is DEF deep south. It shares a 20 mile border with the state of Mississippi, and there's rarely any question with Mississippi's "southern cred" LOL. I'd actually extend the deep south all the way across southern and eastern Arkansas all the way up to Little Rock. South and east sides of the city, the terrain is rather flat, the streams flow more slowly, and you see many more black folks in (and out) the sticks. The north and west sides of the city are much whiter and hillier. This difference is generally exaggerated through the entire state.
Growing up in Northern Illinois and living in Western MO, Carbondale (and Cape, for that matter) doesn't feel deep south like Jackson, Atlanta, or Baton Rouge, but still feels markedly different from the rest of the Midwest. Carbondale (and Cape, which share the same media mkt) sits comfortably in the transition zone between Midwest and south.
The twangs become thicker, demographics change (higher % of blacks in rural areas), and it's still consistently several degrees warmer during the winter, with much less snowfall. Folks in the Chicago area would certainly consider places like Carbondale and Cape "south," although it's much more likely "Mid-South."
In the case of Missouri, south of US 60 is the south for sure. I'm less sure about US 50 being the northern transition boundary, as it runs well within both metro KC & STL. Areas adjacent to and including South (STL) County, south KCMO/Grandview, and JOCO, KS, don't feel southern by any stretch. Neither does Jeff City, which is bisected by 50. I'd say the transition begins further south. At least in western MO, I notice the beginning of the topographical transition just past Joplin's south side and by the time I'm in McDonald County, I've left the Midwest for sure. I'd agree The accents do start to become thicker further north, however.
Memphis is DEF deep south. It shares a 20 mile border with the state of Mississippi, and there's rarely any question with Mississippi's "southern cred" LOL. I'd actually extend the deep south all the way across southern and eastern Arkansas all the way up to Little Rock. South and east sides of the city, the terrain is rather flat, the streams flow more slowly, and you see many more black folks in (and out) the sticks. The north and west sides of the city are much whiter and hillier. This difference is generally exaggerated through the entire state.
The counties south of KC definitely have significant southern influences, they are part of the upland South- adjacent to the Ozarks. The Ozarks are not the Midwest either. They are an extension of the South.
Growing up in Northern Illinois and living in Western MO, Carbondale (and Cape, for that matter) doesn't feel deep south like Jackson, Atlanta, or Baton Rouge, but still feels markedly different from the rest of the Midwest. Carbondale (and Cape, which share the same media mkt) sits comfortably in the transition zone between Midwest and south.
The twangs become thicker, demographics change (higher % of blacks in rural areas), and it's still consistently several degrees warmer during the winter, with much less snowfall. Folks in the Chicago area would certainly consider places like Carbondale and Cape "south," although it's much more likely "Mid-South."
In the case of Missouri, south of US 60 is the south for sure. I'm less sure about US 50 being the northern transition boundary, as it runs well within both metro KC & STL. Areas adjacent to and including South (STL) County, south KCMO/Grandview, and JOCO, KS, don't feel southern by any stretch. Neither does Jeff City, which is bisected by 50. I'd say the transition begins further south. At least in western MO, I notice the beginning of the topographical transition just past Joplin's south side and by the time I'm in McDonald County, I've left the Midwest for sure. I'd agree The accents do start to become thicker further north, however.
Memphis is DEF deep south. It shares a 20 mile border with the state of Mississippi, and there's rarely any question with Mississippi's "southern cred" LOL. I'd actually extend the deep south all the way across southern and eastern Arkansas all the way up to Little Rock. South and east sides of the city, the terrain is rather flat, the streams flow more slowly, and you see many more black folks in (and out) the sticks. The north and west sides of the city are much whiter and hillier. This difference is generally exaggerated through the entire state.
I've always felt that St. Louis had an underlying Southern genteel about it. I think what makes St. Louis a "Midwestern" city today is the obviously large German influence and industrious past, but also there seems to be a hardness/abrasiveness about the area that isnt found anywhere in the true South. I cant really describe it, but St. Louis feels more weathered and gritty than most Southern cities and even most other Midwestern cities, with the exception of Cleveland and Detroit.
Having lived in both Alabama and Mississippi, MS blows the doors off AL in overall Southern-ness. The northern 1/2 of the state is basically Baja Kentucky. Now the general Montgomery area remains strongly Southern, but Birmingham and (especially) Huntsville are getting increasingly Yank-ified.
The counties south of KC definitely have significant southern influences, they are part of the upland South- adjacent to the Ozarks. The Ozarks are not the Midwest either. They are an extension of the South.
Not disputing the southern influences south of KC, but I don't get the same feeling of transition or of being "down south" in El Dorado Springs or Clinton like I get in Springfield, south of Joplin, or in Anderson. I wholeheartedly agree as you move south out of KC (and STL) the accents become thicker and change much more quickly than do the topography, sweet tea offerings, or weather. Lamar, Nevada, Webb City, and Carl Junction still feel like the Midwest, albeit with a thick twang. Diamond and Noel do not.
Last edited by 2000_Watts; 07-30-2015 at 01:06 PM..
These threads are always funny because of how many people view the South and what is southern in 2015. The answer is that there are no clear boundaries between regions anymore due to massive amounts of relocations and travel along with media/communications that all work together to make the world a much smaller place. Some of the metrics used are not necessarily indicators of the South...the southern region has such a diverse cultural area that there is no way to say what exactly is southern and what isn't.
Having lived in both Alabama and Mississippi, MS blows the doors off AL in overall Southern-ness. The northern 1/2 of the state is basically Baja Kentucky. Now the general Montgomery area remains strongly Southern, but Birmingham and (especially) Huntsville are getting increasingly Yank-ified.
So now not even Alabama is not Southern enough. It's down to Mississippi. The last Southern state.
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