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You said civil rights leaders, not politicians. Civil rights leaders didn't have the power. Perhaps they could influence politicians, but by your own admission, a grand total of 1 person advocated for the VRA, and he was just a local mayor. So not exactly a supportive statement of Southern leadership moving civil rights forward. LBJ/JFK were VP/President.
You like to twist words to fit your agenda, but that won't work with me. I said Atlanta is the cradle of the Civil Rights movement, and the fact that the progressive white Mayor at the time was moved to testify before Congress is an extension of that. The Business Community here had access to the politicians, and they were pulling major strings behind the scenes.
This City is rightfully proud of the fact that Atlanta was one of the very few big cities that didn't explode into riots after MLK was assassinated. Cleveland and Cincinnati can't say the same, can they?
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Looking at racial segregation maps, Southern cities look no more integrated than anywhere else. So I guess that comfort level doesn't go very far.
Who cares? On the ground is what matters, and there is a level of integration in our suburbs that would scare the hell out of many Ohioans. Anyone that's ever actually been here can attest to this.
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9 months of the year don't have this weather, and even those 3 months are not constant, but I can appreciate people exaggerating weather. The brief time I lived in the South, the heat/humidity made it feel like an eternity. Still, I can't imagine letting weather alone affect where I live.
We lived in Cleveland. It lasts longer than 3 months, but you already knew that.
And the South is not monolithic. We have 4 distinct seasons in North Georgia.
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I don't like the South all that much, you have that right, though I haven't made any attempt to mask that. As I stated, however, it's not based on something as silly as the weather. I'm liberal and non-religious, so the conservative culture in much of the South is extremely unattractive.
Then you better stay away from SW Ohio, in particular the suburbs of Cincinnati.
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Culturally, I find Southern "courtesy" to be old-fashioned and honestly, pretty fake. I much prefer direct honesty, which the South just isn't known for.
Of course you feel this way. You have preconceived notions, AND an agenda. No wonder your time here was so terrible.
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I have just about zero respect for Southern history, of course, because it's a pretty dark stain on the US. I find much of the South pretty backwards when it comes to things like education and investing in cultural institutions like libraries, museums, galleries, etc. The food is pretty decent, so I'll give the region that one, but it's not exactly healthy. I don't like that so much of the South is developed like a suburban strip mall. Few places have walkable, vibrant and dense neighborhoods. The cost of living is now higher, in most cases, than most places in the North, outside of the I-95 corridor. Etc., etc. Now, there are always going to be some exceptions to all of these reasons, but we're talking about the region as a whole. Basically, the South represents almost everything I don't really like. Weather need not be a factor at all... but in that regard, I love 4 seasons, if for no other reason than that it encourages appreciation for what you have.
After reading this, I am incredibly appreciative for where I live - more than ever.
Kathryn, do you think it is very patriotic to hate Lincoln or the Fed Govt (of today)?
I see you responded to the post about Fort Sumter, but not one reponse to FSU or Absent Minded going on about how much they hate the Fed Govt and want secession? Makes me think you agree with them in some sort of fashion.
Well, you'd be wrong. And my father, my brother, my two sons in law, my son and my daughter are all veterans who served the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA in the armed forces - and all served in combat zones for that matter, so we pretty much put our money where our mouth is when it comes to appreciating the country in which we live.
As for Lincoln - we've had good presidents and bad presidents and I don't think it's necessarily "unpatriotic" to have strong opinions about various politicians. I think it's more important to respect the OFFICE than it is to be all warm and fuzzy about every president we've ever had.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 01-21-2015 at 08:35 PM..
You like to twist words to fit your agenda, but that
won't work with me. I said Atlanta is the cradle of the Civil Rights movement,
and the fact that the progressive white Mayor at the time was moved to testify
before Congress is an extension of that. The Business Community here had access
to the politicians, and they were pulling major strings behind the scenes.
I think maybe we're talking past each other here. I didn't realize that when we were talking about the South, we really were just talking about Atlanta. Now I can understand why you wish to narrow down the conversation to one city in one state in the entire South that may look slightly less bad. Pretty sure Georgia was a segregation state, though. Does it really deserve a pass because of a single forward-thinking guy who decided to ride the wave that was already building?
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This City is rightfully proud of the fact that Atlanta was one of the very
few big cities that didn't explode into riots after MLK was assassinated.
Cleveland and Cincinnati can't say the same, can they?
People were pretty justified to be angry. Hell, I would've rioted under those circumstances. But let's not pretend like Atlanta was some kind of Shangri-La for blacks in the 1960s and before.
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Who cares? On the ground is what matters, and there is a level of integration in
our suburbs that would scare the hell out of many Ohioans. Anyone that's ever
actually been here can attest to this.
We lived in Cleveland. It lasts longer than 3 months, but you already knew that.
4, then? I'm from Columbus, and winter was pretty much 3 months. I could proved daily weather data since 1878 for there if you'd like.
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And the South is not monolithic. We have 4 distinct seasons in North Georgia.
Its not nearly the same, but you already knew that.
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Then you better stay away from SW Ohio, in particular the suburbs of
Cincinnati.
Meh, a few suburban areas are not all that representative of the political nature of the state or region, but you already knew that. I would also suggest Cincy's conservative suburbs are, pound for pound, still less conservative than in the suburban or rural South.
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Of course you feel this way. You have preconceived notions, AND an agenda. No
wonder your time here was so terrible.
In general, I think people in the South are nice, at least as nice as those in the North. However, the "Southern hospitality" thing largely seemed like a myth. People were no more willing to help you or treat you better than in my experience in the North, and there was a trend where people wouldn't always be up front and honest with you about what they really think. Some may view that as being polite, but I personally prefer honesty.
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After reading this, I am incredibly appreciative for where I live - more than
ever.
^Please stay in Mexico City. Someone with this much hatred and outright contempt for a huge region of their home Country really doesn't deserve to live here, in my opinion.
Your views are basically treasonous, and beyond divisive.
Well, you'd be wrong. And my father, my brother, my two sons in law, my son and my daughter are all veterans who served the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA in the armed forces - and all served in combat zones for that matter, so we pretty much put our money where our mouth is when it comes to appreciating the country in which we live.
As for Lincoln - we've had good presidents and bad presidents and I don't think it's necessarily "unpatriotic" to have strong opinions about various politicians. I think it's more important to respect the OFFICE than it is to be all warm and fuzzy about every president we've ever had.
And so has mine, going back for many years. My grandfather still had the bullet in his leg from when he got shot in France. Doesn't make you one iota more of an American than anyone else born in this country.
And some Presidents are far more important and exceptional than others. You love this country very much, we get that. Well there would be no USA today without Lincoln, simple as that. It is something so many of you patriotic southerners just don't get. The victorious Union could have been so much nastier to the defeated rebels if they wanted to, but with Lincoln murdered, many wanted to honor him by following his example of forgiving the South and moving on. Many in the Union wanted to have every Confederate officer executed, including Lee, but Lincoln constantly talked about forgiving the rebels. A nation like Great Britain would have surely executed Lee.
What I notice about your posts on this forum is how quickly you retort any European poster that attacks the USA, but when any good ol Southerner on here viciously attacks our greatest president, our govt, or our nation as a whole, you give them one huge pass. It is obvious which side you are on.
And so has mine, going back for many years. My grandfather still had the bullet in his leg from when he got shot in France. Doesn't make you one iota more of an American than anyone else born in this country.
And some Presidents are far more important and exceptional than others. You love this country very much, we get that. Well there would be no USA today without Lincoln, simple as that. It is something so many of you patriotic southerners just don't get. The victorious Union could have been so much nastier to the defeated rebels if they wanted to, but with Lincoln murdered, many wanted to honor him by following his example of forgiving the South and moving on. Many in the Union wanted to have every Confederate officer executed, including Lee, but Lincoln constantly talked about forgiving the rebels. A nation like Great Britain would have surely executed Lee.
What I notice about your posts on this forum is how quickly you retort any European poster that attacks the USA, but when any good ol Southerner on here viciously attacks our greatest president, our govt, or our nation as a whole, you give them one huge pass. It is obvious which side you are on.
In my opinion, you are completely delusional about your own Country.
Good luck with your entire vision, along with your apparently very convenient version of history.
And so has mine, going back for many years. My grandfather still had the bullet in his leg from when he got shot in France. Doesn't make you one iota more of an American than anyone else born in this country.
And I didn't say it did, so don't go moving the goalposts or putting words in my mouth. YOU are the one who insinuated that I must agree with those who spout off about the south seceding, or that I agree with people who hate the federal government. Your accusation was unfounded and pretty ridiculous. But it didn't surprise me, because you have a LOT of weird ideas about Southerners and the South in general.
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And some Presidents are far more important and exceptional than others.
And without exception, all are or were flawed human beings.
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You love this country very much, we get that. Well there would be no USA today without Lincoln, simple as that.
You're barking up the wrong tree. Go preach at someone else - I didn't say anything positive OR negative about Lincoln.
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It is something so many of you patriotic southerners just don't get.
Wow, you really enjoy employing those sweeping generalizations, don't you? You don't know what I or many or even most "patriotic southerners" think about Lincoln.
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What I notice about your posts on this forum is how quickly you retort any European poster that attacks the USA, but when any good ol Southerner on here viciously attacks our greatest president, our govt, or our nation as a whole, you give them one huge pass.
I think the whole idea of who our greatest president was is a matter of opinion, not fact. If you really do pay so much attention to my posts, you surely have noticed that I haven't expressed my opinion about who our greatest president was.
But you're right - I don't have much patience with Europeans (or Americans) who express animosity or ignorance about the United States in general, or the South or Texas in particular. It's a pet peeve of mine.
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It is obvious which side you are on.
It's probably pretty obvious to the regulars here that I love the US, Texas, and the south, pretty much in that order. I also really love English history, decorating, collecting Polish pottery, my family, dogs, natural foods, and all sorts of other interests and topics.
Laissez les bon temps rouler! (Yes, I love New Orleans too.)
Don't be a hater, Tom. It's not an attractive trait.
Believe me I used to think the South was all full of hillbillies and rednecks growing up in New England and then being raised in Ohio due to Hollywood movies and stereotypes until I moved to the South and found I actually got along with the people better than in the Northeast and Midwest. While the south has aspects of life that I don't like it is a bit too conservative and religious I always respect other people's believes and treat everyone with respect until they give me a reason not to respect them. In addition cities like Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Nashville, Charlotte are all in the South and they are all progressive cities who have many Yankee transplants living in them. The South creates a pro business environment for companies to relocate their headquarters, Mercedes Benz is moving their headquarters from NY to GA. GA, NC and Texas are very business friendly states and Florida has a great economy for health care. You can't judge an entire region on its past, the South is a very progressive part of the country, this title the South will Rise Again is not doing the South any favors thou.
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9 months of the year don't have this weather, and even those 3 months are not constant, but I can appreciate people exaggerating weather. The brief time I lived in the South, the heat/humidity made it feel like an eternity. Still, I can't imagine letting weather alone affect where I live.
