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Let's get straight to it. I'm about to graduate from college and need to decide where I should look to move afterwards.(Let's just assume I have job offers everywhere.) I currently live in GA and I'm a CS major.
Must Haves:
- Low cost of living/housing. (A place that is ideal for getting into local real estate investing.) **This is very relative, so let's just use Georgia as the comparison state. Where you can buy a 4,000 sqft house for around 300k.**
- Safe
- Ideal Jobs location for a Computer Science Major
- Within an hour drive of an extremely cultured/artistic/diverse city(multiple cities would be even better)
Gravy Points:
- Walkable
- Public Transportation
- Within an hour drive of a beach/coast and/or the mountains.(Basically a lot of outdoor activities)
Things that don't mean much to me:
- Religion; Ideally a keep it to yourself attitude would be nice.
- Politics; Don't care as long as it's not too extreme.
- Weather; 4 Seasons, no extremes would be fine.
- Education; Don't plan on having kids any time soon.
It would be absolutely amazing to live in a place that is within driving distance of multiple major cities.
Like the Los Angeles-San Diego-Las Vegas triangle. California in general would be the place I'd probably love to live in if it wasn't so poor for getting involved in real estate.
Sounds like Portland, OR to me. It meets all your criteria (except for the 4,000 Sq foot house -- I mean c'mon) and is nirvana for 20-somethings. Their slogan isn't "Keep Portland weird" nothing.
Sounds like Portland, OR to me. It meets all your criteria (except for the 4,000 Sq foot house -- I mean c'mon) and is nirvana for 20-somethings. Their slogan isn't "Keep Portland weird" nothing.
Portland, Oregon?
Ehhh.
It's within a short drive of Seattle, which is nice.
I've also heard that is a very nice place and that the tech scene is growing. It also does have some of the things that I value.
However the major problem, that you kind of caught is the cost of housing. It is almost similar to California in that regard, and no offense if you happen to be from Oregon, but I think I'd rather live near the Bay Area if it came down to those 2 locations.
But I'll research it a bit. I honestly can't say I know much about Portland. I could be wrong.
Thanks for the response, either way.
Edit: Also I'm not looking to buy a 4,000 sqft house. I just want a place that has ease of entry for buy&hold real estate investing.
Last edited by ChickenNugget; 03-15-2015 at 08:58 PM..
Reason: Edit
First of all, with the exception of a few rustbelt cities (like Youngstown or Syracuse) and poorer cities in the southwest (like El Paso or Bakersfield) not many places have a lower cost of living than Georgia.
Also, there are some contradictions in your criteria. Such as, you say you want four season, public transportation, and walkability, yet you also say that Southern California is your dream location. I'm now trying to be a jerk; it's just that it caused me to question how much those attributions really matter to you.
That said, my sense is that Pittsburgh fits what you say you're looking trying to find. It's very walkable. The city has a ton of character. The cost of living is comparable to Atlanta and much cheaper than Portland, OR. People in Pittsburgh keep their faith (mainly Catholic) and politics (mainly center-left) to themselves (Rich Santorum is the an unfortunate exception). You're a quick drive away from the mountains of West Virginia (white water rafting, hiking, rock-climbing) and the shores of Lake Erie. You're four hours from DC, which is short enough for a weekend getaway. You'll also have four seasons, but none are particularly long or extreme. On the downside, it is rather cloudy.
If walkability and four seasons are really not a concern and you really want something more like So Cal, look into Sacramento. It's a very underrated city, and you're less than two hours from San Francisco, Napa Valley, Lake Tahoe, and Yosemite. Cost of living is going to be more than Atlanta, but wages should be higher too. There are endless threads on here about cheaper alternatives to So Cal in which folks debate the pros and cons of many Western cities. Those threads, I imagine, could be useful to you.
My weird left-field suggestion is Allentown, PA. It's cheap, walkable, safe, and it's less than and hour from the Poconos Mountains and less than two hours from NYC, Philly, and the Chesapeake Bay.
Last edited by Dawn.Davenport; 03-15-2015 at 10:08 PM..
First of all, with the exception of a few rustbelt cities (like Youngstown or Syracuse) and poorer cities in the southwest (like El Paso or Bakersfield) not many places have a lower cost of living than Georgia.
Also, there are some contradictions in your criteria. Such as, you say you want four season, public transportation, and walkability, yet you also say that Southern California is your dream location. I'm now trying to be a jerk; it's just that it caused me to question how much those attributions really matter to you.
That said, my sense is that Pittsburgh fits what you say you're looking trying to find. It's very walkable. The city has a ton of character. The cost of living is comparable to Atlanta and much cheaper than Portland, OR. People in Pittsburgh keep their faith (mainly Catholic) and politics (mainly center-left) to themselves (Rich Santorum is the an unfortunate exception). You're a quick drive away from the mountains of West Virginia (white water rafting, hiking, rock-climbing) and the shores of Lake Erie. You're four hours from DC, which is short enough for a weekend getaway. You'll also have four seasons, but none are particularly long or extreme. On the downside, it is rather cloudy.
If walkability and four seasons are really not a concern and you really want something more like So Cal, look into Sacramento. It's a very underrated city, and you're less than two hours from San Francisco, Napa Valley, Lake Tahoe, and Yosemite. Cost of living is going to be more than Atlanta, but wages should be higher too. There are endless threads on here about cheaper alternatives to So Cal in which folks debate the pros and cons of many Western cities. Those threads, I imagine, could be useful to you.
My weird left-field suggestion is Allentown, PA. It's cheap, walkable, safe, and it's less than and hour from the Poconos Mountains and less than two hours from NYC, Philly, and the Chesapeake Bay.
I'm sorry if I came off as confusing. Weather falls under the 'Things that don't mean much to me' category, because it's just that. I wouldn't mind living in the rainy city of Seattle, getting a lot of snow in NY, or living right on the beach in LA. However 4 seasons is my ideal.
Also public transportation and walkability fall under 'gravy' category. Meaning I don't need it but it would be nice.
As for your suggestions: I have come across Pittsburgh a few times while looking at cities, so I'll make sure to give it a look. Pennsylvania in general seems to be a very nice location for activities/culture just because it is smack dab in the middle of the North East Mega-region.
So thanks.
I'll try and edit the OP to make it a bit more clearer.
That said, my sense is that Pittsburgh fits what you say you're looking trying to find. It's very walkable. The city has a ton of character. The cost of living is comparable to Atlanta and much cheaper than Portland, OR. People in Pittsburgh keep their faith (mainly Catholic) and politics (mainly center-left) to themselves (Rich Santorum is the an unfortunate exception). You're a quick drive away from the mountains of West Virginia (white water rafting, hiking, rock-climbing) and the shores of Lake Erie. You're four hours from DC, which is short enough for a weekend getaway. You'll also have four seasons, but none are particularly long or extreme. On the downside, it is rather cloudy.
Rick Santorum actually didn't go bat**** crazy with his politics until after 2000, but Pennsylvanians buried him for it in 2006. His margin of defeat in 2006 was the largest by an incumbent Senator since 1980.
Anyway, Pittsburgh does seem to fit the criteria in the original post with relatively few exceptions. Its neighborhoods are walkable, and both the city and Allegheny County are "center-left" politically, much like California is. It's also not far from the underrated Laurel Highlands, which are about an hour or two east of Pittsburgh by car. The city itself has enough cultural assets that traveling to other cities might not even be necessary, though New York, Philadelphia and Washington DC are all four to six hours away by car if he has to have the best of the best from time to time. As for the weather, Pittsburgh is one of the major U.S. cities least prone to weather extremes. Floods and blizzards are the two most common extreme weather events, but even they don't happen every year. Tornadoes aren't unheard of, but aren't common either. Both hot and cold temperatures are typically less extreme in Pittsburgh than they are in cities to the west.
As for disadvantages, going to a beach will require a drive longer than an hour. Lake Erie is two hours away, and Presque Isle is underpromoted as a beach destination, so it has more of a "state park" vibe than a "destination" vibe. The ocean beaches are all six or more hours away. If he likes center-left politics, he'll find plenty of that in the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County, but that's about the extent of it. The southwestern Pennsylvania hinterlands beyond Allegheny County are socially conservative, though the particular brand of social conservatism is much more along the lines of "go away" than "praise the Lord." In other words, you're still more likely to be proselytized in the suburbs of Atlanta than you are in the sticks of southwestern Pennsylvania. (I can verify this by experience living in both areas for more than 10 years.) The weather in Pittsburgh might not have much in the way of extremes, but it still takes some getting used to because it's cloudy more often than not from November through March. There's not a complete absence of sunshine, but the typical pattern is a sunny/partly cloudy day or two offset by three to five cloudy days in a row. June through October is when the weather in Pittsburgh is the most pleasant to most people. (April and May are variable.)
I should also note that the IT job market in Pittsburgh seems hard to read. I've heard more than one person say that it was very easy for them to find a well-paying IT job there, but I've also heard more than one person say they can only find temporary work, and that the pay isn't great. The good news is, there doesn't appear to be any nativism in the IT market. In fact, most of the people I know who had an easy time finding an IT job aren't from there, and the one person who complains about the job market the most is. Take that for what it's worth, though.
Athens, GA. Why would you want to leave GA? Maybe you don't realize how good you have it?
Pittsburgh has a high COL and you will never see the sun. You say that you wouldn't mind Seattle but trust me, dealing with endless days of cloud banks in Pittsburgh is no picnic. Pittsburgh has an extremely wet and cloudy climate all year long. Don't worry about driving because on days that the weather permits, you will be going over the border to Ohio. There is a whole lot more to do there and a close network of large cities. The safe walkable neighborhoods in Pittsburgh are the most expensive. The gentrification of the city has caused a serious separation between rich and poor. If you are looking for a low cost safe area, then you will need to choose one of the far outlying suburbs. I have a relative down south who pays $500 in property taxes. I was paying close to $4000.
My other suggestions are Youngstown and Columbus. You will get the most bang for your buck in Ohio.
Rick Santorum actually didn't go bat**** crazy with his politics until after 2000, but Pennsylvanians buried him for it in 2006. His margin of defeat in 2006 was the largest by an incumbent Senator since 1980.
Anyway, Pittsburgh does seem to fit the criteria in the original post with relatively few exceptions. Its neighborhoods are walkable, and both the city and Allegheny County are "center-left" politically, much like California is. It's also not far from the underrated Laurel Highlands, which are about an hour or two east of Pittsburgh by car. The city itself has enough cultural assets that traveling to other cities might not even be necessary, though New York, Philadelphia and Washington DC are all four to six hours away by car if he has to have the best of the best from time to time. As for the weather, Pittsburgh is one of the major U.S. cities least prone to weather extremes. Floods and blizzards are the two most common extreme weather events, but even they don't happen every year. Tornadoes aren't unheard of, but aren't common either. Both hot and cold temperatures are typically less extreme in Pittsburgh than they are in cities to the west.
As for disadvantages, going to a beach will require a drive longer than an hour. Lake Erie is two hours away, and Presque Isle is underpromoted as a beach destination, so it has more of a "state park" vibe than a "destination" vibe. The ocean beaches are all six or more hours away. If he likes center-left politics, he'll find plenty of that in the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County, but that's about the extent of it. The southwestern Pennsylvania hinterlands beyond Allegheny County are socially conservative, though the particular brand of social conservatism is much more along the lines of "go away" than "praise the Lord." In other words, you're still more likely to be proselytized in the suburbs of Atlanta than you are in the sticks of southwestern Pennsylvania. (I can verify this by experience living in both areas for more than 10 years.) The weather in Pittsburgh might not have much in the way of extremes, but it still takes some getting used to because it's cloudy more often than not from November through March. There's not a complete absence of sunshine, but the typical pattern is a sunny/partly cloudy day or two offset by three to five cloudy days in a row. June through October is when the weather in Pittsburgh is the most pleasant to most people. (April and May are variable.)
I should also note that the IT job market in Pittsburgh seems hard to read. I've heard more than one person say that it was very easy for them to find a well-paying IT job there, but I've also heard more than one person say they can only find temporary work, and that the pay isn't great. The good news is, there doesn't appear to be any nativism in the IT market. In fact, most of the people I know who had an easy time finding an IT job aren't from there, and the one person who complains about the job market the most is. Take that for what it's worth, though.
Thanks for the response.
At least in Pittsburgh there are beaches within a 2 hour drive. You can't say that about most cities. So I wouldn't count it as a disadvantage. However the job market is something that I will definitely have to look more into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecarebear
Athens, GA. Why would you want to leave GA? Maybe you don't realize how good you have it?
Pittsburgh has a high COL and you will never see the sun. You say that you wouldn't mind Seattle but trust me, dealing with endless days of cloud banks in Pittsburgh is no picnic. Pittsburgh has an extremely wet and cloudy climate all year long. Don't worry about driving because on days that the weather permits, you will be going over the border to Ohio. There is a whole lot more to do there and a close network of large cities. The safe walkable neighborhoods in Pittsburgh are the most expensive. The gentrification of the city has caused a serious separation between rich and poor. If you are looking for a low cost safe area, then you will need to choose one of the far outlying suburbs. I have a relative down south who pays $500 in property taxes. I was paying close to $4000.
My other suggestions are Youngstown and Columbus. You will get the most bang for your buck in Ohio.
Staying in GA is definitely not off the list. At this point it's still my number 1 choice. I definitely know how good we have it. The main reason I am looking for other options is because Atlanta Georgia doesn't really have a close network of large cities like the Bay Area, Southern Cali, Orlando, Texas, and the North East region. The only 'major' cities close by are Nashville and Charlotte. Which if you compare to SF/Reno, LA/Las Vegas, Miami/Orlando, Austin/Houston/Dallas, and NYC it's kind of underwhelming. I honestly can't say I'm into a lot of Country music, Nascar, and history. Which seem to be the things that pop up as quality entertainment in Nashville and Charlotte when I look on Tripadvisor.
I have heard a few things about Ohio. Something about it having places that can be compared to major cities but at the same time being relatively cheap. I'll add it to the list of places to check out.
Also that area is pretty decent as well when it comes to cluster of larger cities surrounding it. 6 hours from NY isn't that terrible..
Also if it brings anything to the conversation I was actually born in NYC.
Wait, when you say 4,000 square foot house, do you mean the house square footage itself, or the property?
4,000 square feet is a very high hurdle, after all. Currently the average square footage for new construction is 2,679, and that's the highest it's ever been. 4,000 square feet is McMansion territory (or actual mansions like this). You won't find one for under $300,000 almost anywhere in the country - unless it's the ghetto or a gut job.
FWIW, I live with my family of four in a 2,362 square foot house from 1905. Seems more than roomy enough.
Wait, when you say 4,000 square foot house, do you mean the house square footage itself, or the property?
4,000 square feet is a very high hurdle, after all. Currently the average square footage for new construction is 2,679, and that's the highest it's ever been. 4,000 square feet is McMansion territory (or actual mansions like this). You won't find one for under $300,000 almost anywhere in the country - unless it's the ghetto or a gut job.
FWIW, I live with my family of four in a 2,362 square foot house from 1905. Seems more than roomy enough.
The house in question is 4,000 sq ft of house, not property. Property is probably an acre but most of it is trees.
However I am not looking for that. I just said that to kind of show people how cheap you can get housing in Georgia.
Also that house is in a quality area. Less than 40minute drive to Atlanta. No Crime.(Almost literally). Nice town. Decent Schools.
At the moment the main reason Atlanta is still #1 on my list is because apparently it is god when it comes to cheap housing.
Edit: However the house is kind of poorly built. It's probably not even 10 years old and the front entrance arch has fallen off on a lot of similar homes, Nail pops everywhere, kind of dumb subdivision rules, etc. Also doesn't have nearly as much character as the house you linked, and the house you linked is right dab in the city right? The house I'm talking about is in the suburbs.
Last edited by ChickenNugget; 03-16-2015 at 08:09 AM..
Reason: More Details.
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