Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Call me slow, but why exactly are there ALWAYS arguments on this forum about St. Louis? I don't see a lot of Scranton arguments.
I think there's ONE answer: afj.
Also, its a city that even its natives within the city are to this second arguing bout it. It has an extreme identity crisis, north or south? big or small? County vs City. (its city is actually two cities with different goals) Its historically known for being a controversial city. I blame its natives for not putting their heads together.
Its interesting to to observe their internal politics...it's the exact same way as the arguments in this forum. THey're having HUUUGe problems now with the mayor and its fired black chief fireman. Very strange politics, no clear visionary leadership since the 1940's. Huge potential, bad results. Imagine a city that was built and prepared to be the "paris of the midwest". Was the center of attention of the WORLD, and on its way to greatness, then BAM! how did everything crumble apart?
Very interesting city for american urban enthusiasts and great city to visit. Very different, IMO, than its "midwestern" cousins historically and culturally. Its just a debatable city with stubborn natives. Has huge inferiority complex to Chicago, the city that "made it".
(probably not many arguments for scranton because of its size! and not very known outside Ohio and nearby states).,..except for the office...
"Facts speak louder than opinions" - afj 2008
A perfect example about someone who doesn't believe in his own philosophies.
Here's a fact for you afj: - stl msa: 1.9 million. chicago: 9.7 million. .... i know its innapropriate and off topic, but wow does it feel good. and its funny how it matters so much to people like you.
Now here's where Im coming from. You make your arguments from wikipedia, a community based encyclopedia where anyone can edit. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you're the one who keeps editing the articles to include st. louis in the "rustbelt". I always thought the rustbelt was a region, specifically where steal mills were a dominant industry for the local economy. Thus the "rust". Cleveland, Detroit, Pitt. And, those cities experienced significant decay due to the loss of that industry to cheaper foreign products.
Yes, stl was a city heavilly focused on manufacturing, but its cause of decay is heavily debated, as it is a case study in many urban study classes. If you know the answer to why st. louis' population decay, let's see your book or how it compares to many books of scholars much smarter than you. My point is, no one knows exactly the cause, but many have really good guesses. However, we know its NOT from the decline of the steel industry (like other "rust" belt cities). My guess is that its primarilly because of racism in your city, but thats just speculation.
Please don't personally insult my opinions, cause I will insult you back, and we don't want to start that. What constitutes your "facts" from other "facts"? The source? Well what if the source is wrong?
The reason we have these forums is to offer our opinions and debate, not get angry and claim others aren't using "facts" and write paragraphs among paragraphs, which in itself a debatable topic of what fact is. Please calm thyself. You explode writing the same thing over and over and over, as if saying it "louder" will get people to listen. why not try to calm a bit. I probably know st. louis better than you do. jj. but i know more than you probably think.
(oh and btw, i know stl is 2.8 million, i just wanted to see you explode)
You actually think I'm editing wikipedia? LMAO you must be getting desperate. What's next...I created every single source on google or other encyclopedias from which I gather my facts? The History Museum in Forest Park essentially won't tell you anything else. I don't give all my info from wikipedia. You probably know St. Louis better than me, huh? So far you've yet to give a single fact about it, so start talking, I've been waiting for awhile. All you've done is tell me I'm full of it and essentially nothing else. I'm essentially the one doing all the talking about it. Ben Around is almost correct about my argument for St. Louis and the Rustbelt. It is essentially a rustbelt city that is NOT in the stereotypical region everyone deems as the Rustbelt. What I think you are trying to do is say that St. Louis lacks most of the characteristics of a Rustbelt city, and also claim that it is a Southern city and not a Midwestern one, both of which are COMPLETELY off the mark. Look up all of its history and you will essentially find that the only thing that it is lacking for being a rustbelt city is its location of not being on the Great Lakes. I have relatives in Cleveland and I gotta be honest that apart from the weather, I essentially felt right at home, and I have been to Cleveland at least 100 times. The reason that places like Birmingham or Pueblo, Colorado don't fit the bill like St. Louis is because number one, they were never factory-like cities to begin with. During the Great Migration, Birmingham's economy was in shambles and it lost most of its black population...it is thriving now, whereas places Detroit, St. Louis, and Chicago essentially experienced an explosion in black population when they came up from the South in search of better job opportunities. Steel was produced in all of these cities...all of them essentially were driven by manufacturing. As a result of all these blacks coming up and suburbia coming up in the 1950s, all of the aforementioned cities except Chicago experienced white flight to their suburbs and their economies and factories essentially dried up. In their city limits, except for Chicago, the aforementioned cities are not doing very well. Contrast this with Birmingham, where they essentially are picking up where cities like Pittsburgh left off, and were basically dead areas during the times that the Rustbelt cities were dominating the country economically. In fact, the Rust Belt's location around the Great Lakes only is a stereotype...the facts are that the Lower Midwest had cities with the same economies and characteristics as the ones on the Great Lakes. You can disagree with me, but why you feel such a need to prove me wrong is beyond me. Attack the sources of my info, why are you attacking me? Also, my philosophies coincide with the facts. I agree with them. Your's do not, yet you somehow think you can prove facts are false. Wow, talk about incompetence. Everybody I know around here would agree that St. Louis has all the characteristics of a rustbelt city. Cincinnati has all the characteristics of them. Indy and Columbus managed to escape their economies crumbling but were headed in that direction. If there is any city IMO that lacks a few rustbelt characteristics, that would be Chicago because, even though it pretty much fits in as a Rustbelt city, it never dried up like the other cities. Have a nice day, and get a grip on reality. I bet that scientists had an easier time convincing the church about evolution then I've had trying to convince you about facts vs. your crazy philosophies. Go force your philosophies on somebody who will believe them. I've got better things to do with my life than argue with someone who thinks his opinions override the facts.
Also, its a city that even its natives within the city are to this second arguing bout it. It has an extreme identity crisis, north or south? big or small? County vs City. (its city is actually two cities with different goals) Its historically known for being a controversial city. I blame its natives for not putting their heads together.
Its interesting to to observe their internal politics...it's the exact same way as the arguments in this forum. THey're having HUUUGe problems now with the mayor and its fired black chief fireman. Very strange politics, no clear visionary leadership since the 1940's. Huge potential, bad results. Imagine a city that was built and prepared to be the "paris of the midwest". Was the center of attention of the WORLD, and on its way to greatness, then BAM! how did everything crumble apart?
Very interesting city for american urban enthusiasts and great city to visit. Very different, IMO, than its "midwestern" cousins historically and culturally. Its just a debatable city with stubborn natives. Has huge inferiority complex to Chicago, the city that "made it".
(probably not many arguments for scranton because of its size! and not very known outside Ohio and nearby states).,..except for the office...
I think there's another answer: You, and the fact that St. Louis is in the center of the country, so everybody will always question it even when given concrete facts. And then there are people from Chicago like you that attack it mercilessly simply because you think you are better and more qualified to judge us. Did it ever occur to you that Chicago in a lot of ways is different from other Midwestern cities? There are many unique things about it as well. Chicago was NOTHING until the late 1800s. Every city in a region has a lot in common, but they also each have their own culture and history that distinguishes them and makes them unique. THat does not mean you can say that therefore they aren't part of the region. And I'm still waiting for you to give a single fact about the city. These are not false facts that I have given...not only have I read them, I've heard them from my dad, who grew up here, friends of his that grew up here, just about everyone I've talked to that lives here. And when I hear the same story over and over again, there is no way that many people can be wrong. St. Louis manufactured plastics, steel, had major river commerce, produced lots of grain and corn products, was a HUGE clothing industry that was known worldwide...look at the buildings downtown and they tell the story. And how can I say those are inaccurate? Those are only some of my sources. Like I said though, I'm talking to a wall when it comes to you, so why do I continue to bother. You need to get a clue. And I need to move on to other things.
I think there's another answer: You, and the fact that St. Louis is in the center of the country, so everybody will always question it even when given concrete facts. And then there are people from Chicago like you that attack it mercilessly simply because you think you are better and more qualified to judge us. Did it ever occur to you that Chicago in a lot of ways is different from other Midwestern cities? There are many unique things about it as well. Chicago was NOTHING until the late 1800s. Every city in a region has a lot in common, but they also each have their own culture and history that distinguishes them and makes them unique. THat does not mean you can say that therefore they aren't part of the region. And I'm still waiting for you to give a single fact about the city. These are not false facts that I have given...not only have I read them, I've heard them from my dad, who grew up here, friends of his that grew up here, just about everyone I've talked to that lives here. And when I hear the same story over and over again, there is no way that many people can be wrong. St. Louis manufactured plastics, steel, had major river commerce, produced lots of grain and corn products, was a HUGE clothing industry that was known worldwide...look at the buildings downtown and they tell the story. And how can I say those are inaccurate? Those are only some of my sources. Like I said though, I'm talking to a wall when it comes to you, so why do I continue to bother. You need to get a clue. And I need to move on to other things.
It was also a huge manufacturer of shoes. When did i say that it wasn't a manufacturing city?
I simply said its economy wasn't focused around the steel industry like other rust belt cities, and that my friend is a FACT. That is my main reasoning of why its not truly a "rust" belt city, the industry to which that term applies to. ANd that is another fact.
This forum isn't for writing book reports on the history of a city, so i dont have the time or care to elaborate more on my opinions.
You're not the brightest of the bunch i can see....and have some social issues you need to deal with...
I have NO idea why you're exploding and going off on somethings I never said.
You and colts need to go out and socialize with people ... and get laid.
It was also a huge manufacturer of shoes. When did i say that it wasn't a manufacturing city?
I simply said its economy wasn't focused around the steel industry like other rust belt cities, and that my friend is a FACT. That is my main reasoning of why its not truly a "rust" belt city, the industry to which that term applies to. ANd that is another fact.
This forum isn't for writing book reports on the history of a city, so i dont have the time or care to elaborate more on my opinions.
You're not the brightest of the bunch i can see....and have some social issues you need to deal with...
I have NO idea why you're exploding and going off on somethings I never said.
You and colts need to go out and socialize with people ... and get laid.
I've got a girlfriend, thank you very much, and Colts happens to be married I believe. You really don't know who people are on here. I will agree that St. Louis wasn't as big on steel as other cities in the Rust Belt, but it nevertheless was something that was manufactured here and a major reason why many blacks came up to work here. Steel wasn't the only thing that made a rust belt city a rust belt city, and it was manufactured here in pretty decent quantities nonetheless. I don't feel like arguing anymore, so I would rather end this now before one of us winds up getting suspended from here.
(probably not many arguments for scranton because of its size! and not very known outside Ohio and nearby states).,..except for the office...
Well, there was just a story on the local news yesterday that our local film office has just landed another feature film. I'm considering submitting my resume and photos for an "extra" role; wouldn't you all be surprised to see my dorky mug on the big screen?! The film will be called "Matter of Honor," and it will be an Italian-themed crime drama/suspense film celebrating love, honor, and respect (it almost makes me think of The Sopranos if it had been set in Scranton as opposed to North Jersey). Some stars in this movie include Kathy Griffin, Doris Roberts, and Harvey Keitel. Scranton will become more and more of a household name in the coming years, and I can only hope and pray that the NY/NJ transplants will start moving to the CITY for a change instead of just plowing over the suburbs.
Don't get me wrong, I love St. Louis. But it does seem they're a tad overrepresented on this board... Guess it's called city spirit.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't see a lot of Scranton arguments. 
