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I'm from Richmond, another historically southern city that has more in common with cities to it's north (DC, Baltimore to a lesser extent) than to any city or region South of the Tidewater. Honestly, if it wasn't for that four year window as the Capital of the Confederacy, much fewer people would consider us southern today. As it is, I've lived and traveled throughout the South, and have often been told by people from Texas, Oklahoma, Memphis, Mississippi, Georgia, and the Carolinas that I'm not southern and neither is Richmond. Which obviously doesn't negate the southern qualities Rich does have, but that's the real world analysis I've been told personally, despite people on this board's main defense of Rich as southern, our small window as Capital of the Confederacy...
The Mid-Atlantic stretches two regions, like Appalachia. It is both northern and southern. A long time ago it may have centered on NY/NJ/PA. Today it centers on DC-Bmore region people need to recognize it and just let it go!
Oh, Richmond is the South and so is Tidewater. I have plenty of relatives in both areas that are southern and country but they don't think so, lol. I guess being labeled as southern is too tough a cross to bear. I've stated this before that in many parts of Durham a lot of African Americans have a distinct northern- like accent. That was one of the first things I picked up on when relocating to Durham many years ago. I After leaving DC (District of Columbia) and moving to DC (Durham City/County) it confused me a bit because I really thought these folks were from DC (District of Columbia) but were actually Durham natives...still southern.
As for the mid-Atlantic region, things begin to transition around Fredricksburg into the mid-Atlantic region. Same goes for traveling up US29 from Greensboro, Danville, Lynchburg upwards past Charlottesville seems to be the mid-Atlantic inflection point. Charlottesville is southern but much like Chapel Hill, it's an island to itself and labeled as "public" Ivy so the intellect and culture isn't distinctively southern however Waynesboro up thru dem der mountains is whisky and shine land.
DC and Baltimore are mid-Atlantic areas with plenty of southern influence but solidly mid-Atlantic. These regionally tight transitions aren't exclusive to Virginia. Crossing over the Ohio River from Cincinnati into the Northern, Ky suburbs things begin to transition to a more southern culture and dialect once leaving the metro.
In my opinion, the Mid-Atlantic transition to the Northeast region starts in Philly. Although Baltimore-Wash area is part of the Northeastern Corridor, things begin to transition around Philly with respect to the Northeast. I realize Philly and even NYC might get lumped into the mid-Atlantic region based on some definitions but they're solidly northeastern cities. I think just north of Central VA through South of Philly is technically the mid-Atlantic region.
Oh, Richmond is the South and so is Tidewater. I have plenty of relatives in both areas that are southern and country but they don't think so, lol. I guess being labeled as southern is too tough a cross to bear. I've stated this before that in many parts of Durham a lot of African Americans have a distinct northern- like accent. That was one of the first things I picked up on when relocating to Durham many years ago. I After leaving DC (District of Columbia) and moving to DC (Durham City/County) it confused me a bit because I really thought these folks were from DC (District of Columbia) but were actually Durham natives...still southern.
As for the mid-Atlantic region, things begin to transition around Fredricksburg into the mid-Atlantic region. Same goes for traveling up US29 from Greensboro, Danville, Lynchburg upwards past Charlottesville seems to be the mid-Atlantic inflection point. Charlottesville is southern but much like Chapel Hill, it's an island to itself and labeled as "public" Ivy so the intellect and culture isn't distinctively southern however Waynesboro up thru dem der mountains is whisky and shine land.
DC and Baltimore are mid-Atlantic areas with plenty of southern influence but solidly mid-Atlantic. These regionally tight transitions aren't exclusive to Virginia. Crossing over the Ohio River from Cincinnati into the Northern, Ky suburbs things begin to transition to a more southern culture and dialect once leaving the metro.
In my opinion, the Mid-Atlantic transition to the Northeast region starts in Philly. Although Baltimore-Wash area is part of the Northeastern Corridor, things begin to transition around Philly with respect to the Northeast. I realize Philly and even NYC might get lumped into the mid-Atlantic region based on some definitions but they're solidly northeastern cities. I think just north of Central VA through South of Philly is technically the mid-Atlantic region.
That is interesting about some of the Durham residents having a northern-like accent. I have heard some AA's from NC have northern-like accents but they tended to be from places like Fayetteville (military area). I have family in Durham and they all sound extremely southern to me and I'm from tidewater VA. Some AA's in tidewater have somewhat northern sounding accents as well and then others sound more southern.
FWIW I think their definition most accurately reflects the everyday, modern definition of the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast. But it's a matter of perspective, all relative.
Oh, Richmond is the South and so is Tidewater. I have plenty of relatives in both areas that are southern and country but they don't think so, lol. I guess being labeled as southern is too tough a cross to bear. I've stated this before that in many parts of Durham a lot of African Americans have a distinct northern- like accent. That was one of the first things I picked up on when relocating to Durham many years ago. I After leaving DC (District of Columbia) and moving to DC (Durham City/County) it confused me a bit because I really thought these folks were from DC (District of Columbia) but were actually Durham natives...still southern.
As for the mid-Atlantic region, things begin to transition around Fredricksburg into the mid-Atlantic region. Same goes for traveling up US29 from Greensboro, Danville, Lynchburg upwards past Charlottesville seems to be the mid-Atlantic inflection point. Charlottesville is southern but much like Chapel Hill, it's an island to itself and labeled as "public" Ivy so the intellect and culture isn't distinctively southern however Waynesboro up thru dem der mountains is whisky and shine land.
DC and Baltimore are mid-Atlantic areas with plenty of southern influence but solidly mid-Atlantic. These regionally tight transitions aren't exclusive to Virginia. Crossing over the Ohio River from Cincinnati into the Northern, Ky suburbs things begin to transition to a more southern culture and dialect once leaving the metro.
In my opinion, the Mid-Atlantic transition to the Northeast region starts in Philly. Although Baltimore-Wash area is part of the Northeastern Corridor, things begin to transition around Philly with respect to the Northeast. I realize Philly and even NYC might get lumped into the mid-Atlantic region based on some definitions but they're solidly northeastern cities. I think just north of Central VA through South of Philly is technically the mid-Atlantic region.
Have I ever said Richmond wasn't southern? I also identify as a southerner, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. My question to you is why can't Richmond be both southern and Mid-Atlantic?
For all intents and purposes, most people today consider Richmond a part of both...
The main reason most people consider Fredericksburg the "transition zone" is because 95 traffic and landscape changes in the general Fredericksburg vicinity from rural (Spotsylvania) to the heavier, suburban landscape as you get closer to The Capital. That's the only reason, because its easy to tell people who really have no knowledge of Fredericksburg...
For one thing, it wasn't that long ago--as in just barely over a decade--that Fredericksburg was not even considered a part of Northern Virginia. I'm originally from NoVa (Woodbridge). Ask anybody from the area--the inclusion of Fredericksburg as "Northern VA" And it's ties to that region are a very new occurrence. Second, Fredericksburg has always had as much cultural interchange with Richmond as it has with Washington, if not moreso in decades past. Third, how often have you been to Fredericksburg? I mean been there, not just passing through? Nobody can explain how Fredericksburg is more of a transition zone than Spotsylvania, Richmond, or anywhere else...
People love calling Richmond "small", but Fredericksburg is a true small city. You can drive through the entire city in ten minutes. Culturally, it has a bit of both Richmond and DC in it, as well as influences from Spotsylvania, Caroline, and the Northern Neck. Fredericksburg is the "city" in it's immediate 20-mile radius but has grown to be more of an exurb for both Richmond and Washington. I've know plenty of people from there my entire life. I know people who live there now. I could never call it a transition zone to the Mid-Atlantic more than Richmond. I could say that the shift in Metro DC traffic on 95 roughly starts/ends there, but even that is creeping further south...
The true transition zone is Richmond, right now, but maybe you'd have to be intimately familiar with Central Virginia to realize it. There is a cultural gradient between Richmond's northernmost suburbs (those areas which border the Northern Neck and NoVa) and it's southernmost suburbs (those areas bordering Southside VA and Tidewater VA). Richmond itself is the glue between the two. Again, this may be something you'd have to know the area to understand, but again I ask, what makes Fredericksburg more of the transition point than Richmond?
Fact of the matter is both have increasingly grown towards DC. That isn't gonna change, because both have always been connected to DC to some degree, anyway...
I've never met anybody from Durham with a "northern" accent, so how are we defining "a lot"? I'm not saying they don't exist, but whose "a lot"? I dated a woman from there in '13, I was transferred to and worked there off 751 back then (didn t live there, I commuted from Fayetteville and Charlotte), I went to a club there last summer, know plenty of people from there. I've never met anybody from Durham with a northern accent, but then, I understand our ears may recognize accents differently...
That is interesting about some of the Durham residents having a northern-like accent. I have heard some AA's from NC have northern-like accents but they tended to be from places like Fayetteville (military area). I have family in Durham and they all sound extremely southern to me and I'm from tidewater VA. Some AA's in tidewater have somewhat northern sounding accents as well and then others sound more southern.
Definitely parts of Fayettenam due to military influence but Durham is a mix bag of accents like Tidewater.
Some AA's in tidewater have somewhat northern sounding accents as well and then others sound more southern.
This trait is more characteristic of the Tidewater than Durham. Trust me on this one. Im still waiting to hear what constitutes a "lot" of Durhamites with "northern" accents. I've known a grip of people from The Bull and I worked there Summer '13. I haven't met a single person from Durham who sounded "northern". Not one...
Have I ever said Richmond wasn't southern? I also identify as a southerner, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. My question to you is why can't Richmond be both southern and Mid-Atlantic?
For all intents and purposes, most people today consider Richmond a part of both...
The main reason most people consider Fredericksburg the "transition zone" is because 95 traffic and landscape changes in the general Fredericksburg vicinity from rural (Spotsylvania) to the heavier, suburban landscape as you get closer to The Capital. That's the only reason, because its easy to tell people who really have no knowledge of Fredericksburg...
For one thing, it wasn't that long ago--as in just barely over a decade--that Fredericksburg was not even considered a part of Northern Virginia. I'm originally from NoVa (Woodbridge). Ask anybody from the area--the inclusion of Fredericksburg as "Northern VA" And it's ties to that region are a very new occurrence. Second, Fredericksburg has always had as much cultural interchange with Richmond as it has with Washington, if not moreso in decades past. Third, how often have you been to Fredericksburg? I mean been there, not just passing through? Nobody can explain how Fredericksburg is more of a transition zone than Spotsylvania, Richmond, or anywhere else...
People love calling Richmond "small", but Fredericksburg is a true small city. You can drive through the entire city in ten minutes. Culturally, it has a bit of both Richmond and DC in it, as well as influences from Spotsylvania, Caroline, and the Northern Neck. Fredericksburg is the "city" in it's immediate 20-mile radius but has grown to be more of an exurb for both Richmond and Washington. I've know plenty of people from there my entire life. I know people who live there now. I could never call it a transition zone to the Mid-Atlantic more than Richmond. I could say that the shift in Metro DC traffic on 95 roughly starts/ends there, but even that is creeping further south...
The true transition zone is Richmond, right now, but maybe you'd have to be intimately familiar with Central Virginia to realize it. There is a cultural gradient between Richmond's northernmost suburbs (those areas which border the Northern Neck and NoVa) and it's southernmost suburbs (those areas bordering Southside VA and Tidewater VA). Richmond itself is the glue between the two. Again, this may be something you'd have to know the area to understand, but again I ask, what makes Fredericksburg more of the transition point than Richmond?
Fact of the matter is both have increasingly grown towards DC. That isn't gonna change, because both have always been connected to DC to some degree, anyway...
I've never met anybody from Durham with a "northern" accent, so how are we defining "a lot"? I'm not saying they don't exist, but whose "a lot"? I dated a woman from there in '13, I was transferred to and worked there off 751 back then (didn t live there, I commuted from Fayetteville and Charlotte), I went to a club there last summer, know plenty of people from there. I've never met anybody from Durham with a northern accent, but then, I understand our ears may recognize accents differently...
Well, there are parts of Durham with people who have a northern-southern drawl accent, this is even heard in DC as I have lived in both areas for many years where Harold is pronounced Hurrold...just my experiences. It's not everywhere in the area but I found it interesting when first arriving but Durham like Tidewater is definitely southern without a doubt. Lol, Allen Iverson's nickname is "Bubba Chuck"..that's about as southern as it gets. Tidewater is definitely a different beast but its undeniably the south, maybe not south JawJah but it's southern.
I know people from all over VA, Caroline County, etc and having lived in DC for a long time, Richmond is considered southern especially by folks in the DC/MD area.
Nah, Richmond will never be part of the DC metro, it's just too different even if VRE extends there which ends near Fredericksburg. From a geographical standpoint that is the southern fringe of the Mid-Atlantic region. Matter of fact the cultural gap from DC/MD to Richmond is significant, even a gap between NOVA to DC/MD. Raleigh, Greensboro and Charlotte are culturally very similar but living here you learn and see the differences. The cultural differences between Richmond, NOVA, DC/MD and Baltimore are markedly obvious to a certain degree. I worked in NOVA for a long time and knew folks who avoided parts of DC and MD like the plague.
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This trait is more characteristic of the Tidewater than Durham. Trust me on this one. Im still waiting to hear what constitutes a "lot" of Durhamites with "northern" accents. I've known a grip of people from The Bull and I worked there Summer '13. I haven't met a single person from Durham who sounded "northern". Not one...
I guess you don't know the "belly" of Durham like I do, no problem, carry on.
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