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Old 04-23-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,266,140 times
Reputation: 2168

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
This is weird, Quebec was/is a french colony formed on land occupied by several Native American Tribes. What makes Quebec's conquest/take over by the British any different than what the French did to the actual Natives. Using that as a reason for wanting Quebec to be independent is silly. All of the America's should be given back to the Native Americans going by that logic.

I understand there are cultural differences at play, but that culture clash is just as much the fault of closed minded Quebecans as it is the fault of other Canadians.
The Saint Lawrence river valley where the vast majority of Quebecois live was uninhabited. This is one of the reasons they decided to settle there. The Iroquois drove out the Huron and other tribes leaving the area unoccupied. It was the British who cleared out nearby native settlements in the Townships, Mauricie, northern Quebec, etc.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Sussex, New Jersey
7 posts, read 7,244 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
All true, but this does not necessarily make the current post-colonial/conquest borders and governance structure of Canada-USA-Mexico an optimal set-up than cannot ever be changed or even improved upon.

And I say this as someone who is not in favour of independence for Quebec BTW.
Out of curiosity, why wouldn't some French Quebecers want independence for their people? Is it for the monetary incentive?
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:27 AM
 
868 posts, read 873,849 times
Reputation: 1320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
All true, but this does not necessarily make the current post-colonial/conquest borders and governance structure of Canada-USA-Mexico an optimal set-up than cannot ever be changed or even improved upon.

And I say this as someone who is not in favour of independence for Quebec BTW.
I didn't say the current structure is an optimal setup, though. There is certainly room for improvement, but to want independence simply because you were once a French colony conquered by the British hundreds of years ago is silly. However, as long as Canadians fail to seriously address this is (right now it's just accepted that Quebec whines about independence 24/7 365 days a year) and as long as Quebec is closed minded in its ways, nothing will change. There should be a serious discussion abut any current grievances Quebec, but any serious discussion should NOT include whining about being conquered by Britain.

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As to those who support breaking every big country up into smaller ones, I say you're naive if you think that will improve anything in this day and age. We live in age where we have a global economy, dividing the world up into hundreds (thousands) of small countries would be an absolute nightmare for business. The European Union, though struggling, was created for this very reason. Too many small countries with different rules, currency, etc., etc., Even in the US, there exists too many barriers and regulation differences between the states. Most countries don't exist under rule of tyrannical monarchy anymore, rather than splicing every big country into smaller ones, how about we focus with fixing the democratic systems we have in play first.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:35 AM
 
Location: europe
77 posts, read 77,299 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
I didn't say the current structure is an optimal setup, though. There is certainly room for improvement, but to want independence simply because you were once a French colony conquered by the British hundreds of years ago is silly. However, as long as Canadians fail to seriously address this is (right now it's just accepted that Quebec whines about independence 24/7 365 days a year) and as long as Quebec is closed minded in its ways, nothing will change. There should be a serious discussion abut any current grievances Quebec, but any serious discussion should NOT include whining about being conquered by Britain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to those who support breaking every big country up into smaller ones, I say you're naive if you think that will improve anything in this day and age. We live in age where we have a global economy, dividing the world up into hundreds (thousands) of small countries would be an absolute nightmare for business. The European Union, though struggling, was created for this very reason. Too many small countries with different rules, currency, etc., etc., Even in the US, there exists too many barriers and regulation differences between the states. Most countries don't exist under rule of tyrannical monarchy anymore, rather than splicing every big country into smaller ones, how about we focus with fixing the democratic systems we have in play first.

So you're an imperialist? Iraq, Afghanistan, Europe and Mexico and Canada should all be under American control, and if they don't want this they are whining. Its kind of scary to hear this.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:40 AM
 
Location: NYntarctica
11,438 posts, read 6,421,611 times
Reputation: 4340
I think it would be really cool! Having a country right next to you that speaks French, that sounds like a dream
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:42 AM
 
868 posts, read 873,849 times
Reputation: 1320
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtmann View Post
So you're an imperialist? Iraq, Afghanistan, Europe and Mexico and Canada should all be under American control, and if they don't want this they are whining. Its kind of scary to hear this.
Not dividing the world up into hundreds of smaller countries does not equal imperialism. Where in my post did I suggest the world should be under American control?

Your leaps of logic are astounding.

The European Union formed out of it's own free will. No-one forced any country to join, and no one country has control over everything. Every country has some kind of voice within the union. Just like every state has a voice within the US. I am not advocating forming a one world government with the US in control. That you got that from my previous comment is absurd. All I'm saying is that cooperation, not fragmentation, is the answer.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Denmark
74 posts, read 57,753 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrtmom View Post
Out of curiosity, why wouldn't some French Quebecers want independence for their people? Is it for the monetary incentive?
In every colonial society there is a part of the population who will sell out their people for a petty personal gain. Quebec is no different. Thats how the whole structure is maintained.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Denmark
74 posts, read 57,753 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
Not dividing the world up into hundreds of smaller countries does not equal imperialism. Where in my post did I suggest the world should be under American control?

Your leaps of logic are astounding.

The European Union formed out of it's own free will. No-one forced any country to join, and no one country has control over everything. Every country have some kind of voice within the union. Just like every state has a voice within the US. I am not advocating forming a one world government with the US in control. That you got that from previous comment is absurd. All I'm saying is that cooperation, not fragmentation, is the answer.
Read up on Quebec sovereinty. They want an EU style arrangement.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:55 AM
 
868 posts, read 873,849 times
Reputation: 1320
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbubbles81 View Post
Read up on Quebec sovereinty. They want an EU style arrangement.
While more plausible, why have an EU style arrangement when you are already one country? The BIGGEST flaw of the EU is that while they share the same currency, because they are sovereign nations, each country has their own fiscal policy. It's the reason the EU has the problems it does today. Is that what Quebec wants?
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:57 PM
 
144 posts, read 156,836 times
Reputation: 158
I miss the Quebec Nordiques!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post
What do American people think about Québec independence.

Some background:

We were conquered by the empire of the British in the 1700's. They deported many who went to Louisiana and became called «Cajuns». They tried to wipe out the culture of the rest of, and this includes the Canadian government that inherited British empire lands in North America. In Québec we survived as the lower class (85% of the population) ruled by the British/English Canadians.

We want to be a republic like the USA. Canada is a monarchy with a European monarch at the head of state, the English Queen, and we do not want it. The USA is the land of the free and a strong model for success, this is something that enough credit is not given in to. I am interested in American thought because Americans are reputed for supporting free people and self determination. We desire to a closer alliance with the Americans and enjoy having such good neighbours. We also envision a Québec that is peaceful like a Norway or Switzerland. We have come far since the start of our movement in the 1960's but fell short of independence. In 1995 during our second indepandance vote (the first was in 1980, we lost 60-40), 61% of Québecois voted for independence, but of course the people who conquered us voted too and so this shifted the independence vote to 49.5% to 50.5%. An independent Québec will be the 29th largest economy in the world, 20th largest country in the world, and have a living standard similar to UK and Finland.
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