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Old 04-28-2015, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
VA and NC are very different historically...I think the point is that despite their historic similarities, VA and MA are very different today.
Again, what are the historic similarities between Virginia and Massachusetts? Because besides being old states, I'm totally drawing a blank.

On the other hand, North Carolina and Virginia have very similar histories. They were both founded as proprietary colonies (founded technically under the rule of one man), while Massachusetts was founded by a corporation. They were both plantation states founded for profit, while Massachusetts was founded as a religious refuge for puritans. By the time of the revolution, Massachusetts had a knowledge-based economy (for the time period) with a large number of people working in small cities and towns in skilled crafts and proto-manufacturing. Virginia and North Carolina, in contrast, had economies still based around the plantations, and had very few significant urban centers. Vernacular building styles, religious affiliation, you name it, and Virginia was much more similar to North Carolina than Massachusetts.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Again, what are the historic similarities between Virginia and Massachusetts? Because besides being old states, I'm totally drawing a blank.

On the other hand, North Carolina and Virginia have very similar histories. They were both founded as proprietary colonies (founded technically under the rule of one man), while Massachusetts was founded by a corporation. They were both plantation states founded for profit, while Massachusetts was founded as a religious refuge for puritans. By the time of the revolution, Massachusetts had a knowledge-based economy (for the time period) with a large number of people working in small cities and towns in skilled crafts and proto-manufacturing. Virginia and North Carolina, in contrast, had economies still based around the plantations, and had very few significant urban centers. Vernacular building styles, religious affiliation, you name it, and Virginia was much more similar to North Carolina than Massachusetts.
VA was one of the most populated and powerful states/colonies (like MA), while NC was one of the least populated and powerful. There were very few plantations in NC compared to VA, and very few cities compared to VA. The vast majority of NC was unpopulated.

NC and VA are very similar today, but they couldn't have been more different historically.

Last edited by JoeTarheel; 04-28-2015 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
VA was one of the most populated and powerful states/colonies (like MA), while NC was one of the least populated and powerful. There were very few plantations in NC compared to VA, and very few cities compared to VA. The vast majority of NC was unpopulated.

NC and VA are very similar today, but they couldn't have been more different historically.
I don't have colonial numbers handy, but at the time of the 1790 census North Carolina's total population (393,751) was the third-greatest in the country, with only Pennsylvania (434,373) and Virginia (747,610) having more people. Massachusetts came in fourth at 378,787. Now, it is true that if you discounted the slave population at that time, North Carolina would have fallen to the fifth-largest state by population, coming behind Massachusetts and New York. But I think we can all agree although for congressional apportionment slaves were only counted as 3/5ths of a person, they were fully human and should be counted as such.

In terms of cities, in 1790 there was not a single Virginia city in the top 10. The largest city was Richmond, which had 3,761 at the time (the 18th largest city in the country). Norfolk, Petersburg, and Alexandria all were within the top 25, but lower on the list (and all had less than 3,000 people). In contrast, Boston was the third-largest city in the country, and there were seven other cities and towns in Massachusetts in the top 25. So while it is true that Virginia was more urban than North Carolina, it was not particularly similar to Massachusetts.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Demographic history of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:38 PM
 
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NC and VA have become more similar since the Civil War. Before the Civil War, NC was much more poorer and rural while VA was the complete opposite. However, today they're not as different. The Research Triangle and the outer suburbs of Northern VA and Richmond are virtually indistinguishable (North Raleigh, Fairfax, Midlothian). Plenty of transplants have moved to NC and VA. Both states have a shared tobacco legacy (more so in NC) along with ACC schools. Even then, you have historical similarities like Jamestown and the Lost Colony of Roanoke Island.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:43 PM
 
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Confederacy makes me think of Miss.

Yankee makes me think of Maine.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JayJayCB View Post
NC and VA have become more similar since the Civil War. Before the Civil War, NC was much more poorer and rural while VA was the complete opposite. However, today they're not as different. The Research Triangle and the outer suburbs of Northern VA and Richmond are virtually indistinguishable (North Raleigh, Fairfax, Midlothian). Both states have a shared tobacco legacy (more so in NC) along with ACC schools. Even then, you have historical similarities like Jamestown and the Lost Colony of Roanoke Island.
Exactly what I've been saying. They were very different states prior to the Civil War for the reasons you mentioned above, but they have become almost twins since then.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
Exactly what I've been saying. They were very different states prior to the Civil War for the reasons you mentioned above, but they have become almost twins since then.
Pretty much. South Carolina is too Deep South, so I'd say it's more similar to Georgia. Maryland has become much more Mid-Atlantic and less southern so I'd compare it to Pennsylvania and Delaware. That leaves North Carolina and Virginia in the middle.
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
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Much of VA (and a great deal of absolute area) has very few people in it. It's very rural and agrarian, and the southern/southwestern parts of it are severely conservative.
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
Much of VA (and a great deal of absolute area) has very few people in it. It's very rural and agrarian, and the southern/southwestern parts of it are severely conservative.
Very similar to NC...outside of the urban areas it gets very conservative and agriculture is still very much a part of the economy - but then again most states follow that same pattern.
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