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Old 11-24-2017, 06:27 AM
 
21,337 posts, read 30,709,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
In the past 5 years, the Jaguars have been in the lowest 5 in 2013, 2015, and 2017 (and barely missed it in 2016). I don't understand how anyone can look at the Jaguars in Jacksonville and consider them a safe bet to remain.
So has Cincinnati, Cleveland and Oakland so where's the chatter about those teams?
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Old 11-24-2017, 07:24 AM
 
9,475 posts, read 9,657,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
So has Cincinnati, Cleveland and Oakland so where's the chatter about those teams?
Wow it's almost like being a terrible team lead to terrible attendance, shocking.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:40 AM
 
21,337 posts, read 30,709,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Wow it's almost like being a terrible team lead to terrible attendance, shocking.
From a bandwagon fan standpoint I suppose...
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
1,609 posts, read 1,131,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
So has Cincinnati, Cleveland and Oakland so where's the chatter about those teams?
Ummm...there was definitely chatter about Oakland. So much so they moved to Las Vegas!

And if Jacksonville is having problems because of performance, that means the team has to rely on casual bandwagon fans to get people into seats. That's quite bad considering small markets with one sports team (OKC, San Antonio) usually rely on fervent supporters. If Jacksonville needs bandwagon supporters to hit attendance averages, then there's at least a dozen other cities in the U.S. who could the same, including Orlando.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:42 AM
 
9,475 posts, read 9,657,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
From a bandwagon fan standpoint I suppose...
"Bandwagon" fandom is just reality, there are about 3 franchises that sell out no matter what the other 119 need to be good.
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
6,394 posts, read 7,066,298 times
Reputation: 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
Because the Jags are frequently in the bottom tier in attendance and this year has been their worst this decade:

Attendance:
2010: 63,032 (#24 of 32)
2011: 62,331 (#25 of 32)
2012: 64,984 (#20 of 32)
2013: 59,940 (#28 of 32)
2014: 62,961 (#24 of 32)
2015: 61,463 (#27 of 32)
2016: 61,915 (#26 of 32)
2017: 59,874 (#29 of 32)

I don't think the Jaguars are leaving anytime soon but IF a team has to relocate next, the Jaguars are the #! contenders. 5 years ago the 5 weakest teams in attendance were: Miami, Oakland, Saint Louis, San Diego, Tampa.

As you well know, Oakland, Saint Louis and San Diego all lost their teams and the only thing keeping Miami and Tampa in place is they are Top 12 Media Markets.

In the past 5 years, the Jaguars have been in the lowest 5 in 2013, 2015, and 2017 (and barely missed it in 2016). I don't understand how anyone can look at the Jaguars in Jacksonville and consider them a safe bet to remain.

As you know, Orlando's Media Market is 2x bigger than Jacksonville's and is growing faster in both aggregate and percentage terms. If the NFL is looking to move the Jaguars, a 4 million+ person market just down I-95/I-4 isn't a bad option.
Just a couple things. I've written in-depth on this a few times already but obviously don't expect you to have searched my posts or researched this stuff so no worries I'll try to be concise.

1) Oakland, St Louis and San Diego lost their franchises due to stadium issues that were not resolved so the owners made good on their threats to leave (I side with the cities and taxpayers...good on them actually) If this becomes an issue in Jax then that will be the overwhelming catalyst for a relocation. That could happen, I'm certainly not saying it won't, but as of right now there's no indication of that being the case. In fact, today most would consider Jax's stadium to be in the top 5 state-of-the-art, modern, revenue-generating stadiums in the league. I do think ownership is quietly planning to seek city/taxpayer money for a major rebuild or new stadium in the next ten years, which coincidentally is when the current lease ends so as that draws near it's entirely possible that everything is back up in the air.

2) There's a difference between normal teams seeing greater attendance during successful stretches and what the Jags have gone through...which is a historically awful 6-year stretch and a near historically bad 10-year stretch. We appear to be coming out of that so now would be the time to hopefully see any attendance issues fade away. May or may not happen.

3) But the most important reason why many people feel confident that the team won't leave anytime soon is because of the owner, Shad Khan, who has become seen as a quasi-savior of the region. He's made many moves to stabilize the franchise (that is, make it feasible to keep the team in Jax long term) and most significantly he has invested an incredible amount of time, money and energy into our city. He has spent a lot of time and his own resources (private plane) helping our city business and political leaders meet with business leaders around North America (they just got back from a Chamber trip to Toronto) and throughout Western Europe (they usually spend the week before the Jaguars game in London meeting with companies) He's put in about $90M into the facilities (locker rooms, offices, training grounds, stadium improvements, practice facility, built Jax's flagship outdoor concert venue/amphitheater) Yes, the city put up nearly an equal amount to get him to invest in it, but ultimately these facilities all belong to Jacksonville so if he were to move the team it would be quite an unusual gift from an owner to a city. Based on current naming rights sponsorships and management deals with the city it would take Khan about 25 years to recoup the capital investment he has made.

And the $90M figure I mentioned is strictly for the city-owned facilities as I mentioned...he's invested more into local businesses, historic buildings, development projects, and has plans on the scale of Vinik in Tampa for redeveloping the entire waterfront of the stadium district. Those things I would categorize ultimately as profit-seeking ventures so I wouldn't look to that as an example of Khan's commitment to the city, necessarily, but the truth is if you know anything about Jax you'd realize that few real developers have any interest in these sites and real estate is not Khan's business, so it's hard to characterize his develop interest in Jax as purely profit-driven. If his vision works out and he develops the Shipyards as he's proposed, its success would really hinge on the Jaguars being the anchor. His team would benefit from the synergy and his developments would benefit from the clustering of sports and entertainment uses. So IF that development starts to move forward (so far it has been 3 years of proposals, consultations, and negotiations...nothing concrete has materialized) then I'd say at that time it's very very unlikely the team moves even in 10 years. But right now, yeah, team should be fine in Jax until 2027 gets close...so maybe 2025 or so we'll see some serious concern if Khan tells the city he wants $1B for a new stadium soon.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Funky Town, Texas
4,148 posts, read 7,236,086 times
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Fort Worth should get a NBA team.
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,923 posts, read 7,045,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdogg817 View Post
Fort Worth should get a NBA team.
That would not be feasible, unless the Mavericks moved. Dallas is too small a metro for two NBA teams
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:49 AM
 
21,337 posts, read 30,709,183 times
Reputation: 19880
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
Ummm...there was definitely chatter about Oakland. So much so they moved to Las Vegas!

And if Jacksonville is having problems because of performance, that means the team has to rely on casual bandwagon fans to get people into seats. That's quite bad considering small markets with one sports team (OKC, San Antonio) usually rely on fervent supporters. If Jacksonville needs bandwagon supporters to hit attendance averages, then there's at least a dozen other cities in the U.S. who could the same, including Orlando.
Skewed argument. The NFL wanted a team/ownership group in Las Vegas badly, each team move nets the remaining stable teams tens of millions from the relocation fees all teams share and the Raiders have had a non-bandwagon core following locally/nationally for decades despite poor performance in recent years. Additionally your comparison points to small markets with one sports team references three NBA teams that average 17K or so in attendance. Outside of San Antonio perhaps none of those three markets has the disposable income to consistently sell 65K-70K seats at 70 bucks a piece 8 times a year every year. Jacksonville year to year despite poor performance until this year is averaging better than 6 other NFL teams in attendance numbers (including Detroit, Chicago and LA) despite being the smallest market, which hints at the fact that the problem isn't the market size...rather a popularity contest with varying cities. Also worth noting this year both Jacksonville and Tampa Bay have been struggling with the economic hit provided by Hurricane Irma as many have had unplanned for out of pocket expenses not covered by high homeowners insurance deductibles ($5000 and up).

2016 NFL Football Attendance - National Football League - ESPN
2015 NFL Football Attendance - National Football League - ESPN
2014 NFL Football Attendance - National Football League - ESPN
2013 NFL Football Attendance - National Football League - ESPN
2012 NFL Football Attendance - National Football League - ESPN
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:53 AM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
13,256 posts, read 19,295,848 times
Reputation: 7017
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
That would not be feasible, unless the Mavericks moved. Dallas is too small a metro for two NBA teams
*DFW

And too small...?
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