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Old 05-12-2015, 01:41 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,844,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwahfromtheheart View Post
Yeah, well, you are what you are - you could just as easily be a gateway to the Midwest but it didn't feel that way The discussion at hand is whether Ohio should be classified as a NE state - but I just do not see anything that would convince me to that. I have always thought of Ohio as a MW state and I'm wondering why I should change that opinion still?
You shouldn't. Ohio straddles many regions, anyway. Hard to fit it into a generic Midwest bubble. Up North it's Great Lakes and similar to Buffalo. In the middle, that middle America feel (which is common in the Midwest but also Pennsylvania) dominates, and down South, you hear some people and think it's Kentucky but diluted. My point is with this thread is that you can argue anything to make a state Northeastern since it sure is a popular thing to do here. Primarily East Coast states get argued over, and with this thread I wanted to show thata Midwest state qualifies more for NE status than. Some of these wannabe Northeast states. Anything is in the Northeast if you look at data that fits your argument, and Ohio fits in well.

Quote:
The thing with accents is, not many people notice distinct differences - just "He sounds like he's from the East Coast" or "That's a Midwest accent". I'd pose if you bring somebody from Chicago and somebody from MPS to the south, and ask people to identify the accents, they're going to say "They sound Midwest to me".
What is MPS? Minneapolis? Because those accents are similar to the nasal Chicago accent. What they're not similar to is the newscaster standard associated with the Midwest. And some Midwest accents are even hard to place by Southerners because they all sound like damn Yankees. As far as sounding from the East Coast, I assume you mean Northeast. Yes, there are similarities but it isn't far fetched to think that settlements going West didn't also bring those speech patterns West.

Quote:
Your map seems to place Philly in a Mid-Atlantic tone - which maybe I can get along with, but at the same time I look at my area, and I know how many creoles and cajuns are in Plaquemines Parish (bird foot of the river) and can tell you that the map indicates it wrong. While it is not part of the official 22 Acadian provinces (which are accurately labeled), it is definitely not part of the traditional south accent. Creoles and cajuns settled those lands, and the general rule is the more islands you see the more Cajuns there'll be.
Fair enough, but there is no linguistic map out there that doesn't separate Philly from New York in terms of accent. Some call it Mid-Atlantic, some call it North Midland, but it's still in a different zone. The difference here is the Philly accent is the most studied in America, so more info is available to let people know it's distinct from New York and is not a true blue Northern accent.

Quote:
Try to tell me this is traditional south, as your map suggests. It's an old video - but Louisiana is probably the one state least susceptible to cultural change. We have always had a very low amount of out migration and we have less transplants as a percentage of our population than the entire nation, remaining so for the past 100 years. And yes - French is still spoken openly in some instances in some parishes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHrFv4AErm4
Right, and that may be a fact, but just because Louisiana isn't as well known as Philly doesn't mean that the Philly accent isn't a Midland dialect. It's an Atlantic Midland dialect that while sharing qualities with NYC like the short-a split system and the British carryover of "aw" sounds in words like coffee, thought, caught, off, etc, it also has very Midland qualities like the "O" sound, some glide deletion, and strong rhoticity, it becomes a "transitional" dialect between the northern NYC and the southern "whatever city you think is Southern going down I95". Philly has New York qualities the same way Cleveland and Cincy share qualities.

 
Old 05-12-2015, 01:46 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,844,575 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icemodeled View Post
I have always considered ohio to be midwest more then anything. its laid back, corn fields, weather and tornado alley material fit mostly in with the midwest IMO.
Again with the weather argument. There is no exclusive Midwestern type weather! Cincinnati and Cleveland don't even have the same weather and barely the same climate. Weather east of the Rockies is a lot like dialects; there is more change going from North to South than there is from East to West. By your logic, Cincy is Northeastern because it straddles the humid subtropical climate just like New Jersey does.

Ohio isn't even in Tornado Alley! Only the western extremities and around Toledo are considered "Hoosier Alley", but the rest of the state isn't terribly tornado prone. And by your logic, Cleveland is definitely Northeastern because its climate is more like Upstate NY than like Nebraska.
 
Old 05-12-2015, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Morgantown, WV
469 posts, read 417,562 times
Reputation: 641
If I were to go by just the people I've known personally from Ohio and the Northeast (NY,NJ, Philly, etc.), Ohio is definitely not Northeastern. The people are generally more happy go lucky, less impatient, friendlier, quieter, more outdoorsy, not as big on cosmopolitan things like shopping/dining...just overall pretty different culturally. As far as speech goes, the accents are world's apart IMO. There are of course individual exceptions to the rule but this has been my overall experience.

Granted, I haven't lived in neither region but I have met quite a few folks from both over the years and I'd say negative on OH being Northeastern.
 
Old 05-12-2015, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,419 posts, read 11,923,391 times
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I'm going to quote myself again from the top of the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It's silly to argue about this, because the terms Northeast and Midwest mean nothing anyway.

People always get confused because we have one region of the country (the South) which is both a well-defined geographic area as well as a distinct culture. They want to believe the same is true elsewhere in the U.S. - that there are such things as Northeastern, Midwestern, and Western cultures. But there simply aren't. There's a "general American" culture which is vaguely Northern in orientation. And there are different cultural influences, like Yankee and Midland, which are in both the Northeast and Midwest, and also to an extent in the West.

The bottom line is that there's nothing other than the census designation which defines the Midwest. And people in Ohio generally speaking consider themselves Midwesterners. Ohio is fine where it is.
To make it even more direct:

Northeast and Midwest are geographic descriptors. There is NO MIDWEST CULTURE! There is NO NORTHEAST CULTURE!
 
Old 05-12-2015, 02:12 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,021,926 times
Reputation: 4857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwahfromtheheart View Post
Philly sounds more like something in Ohio than something on the East Coast? IDK, that's a huge stretch.
Not at all. The Philadelphia & South Jersey dialects are within the North Midland dialect region, the same as southern Ohio.



NJ speech varies considerably from north to south. I can usually immediate tell if someone is from North Jersey by their accent and mannerisms. On the other hand, I've known quite a few people who have moved here from areas of the Midwest and they can be hard to distinguish from the rest of us. To make it clear, parts of South Jersey do have a rather distinctive accent that can easily identify a native. However, I cannot always pick up on one; many of us don't seem to speak with much of one. I'd say most people speak in what sounds to be a fairly neutral speech, which makes it rather easy for Midwesterners to blend in here.
 
Old 05-12-2015, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Northeast and Midwest are geographic descriptors. There is NO MIDWEST CULTURE! There is NO NORTHEAST CULTURE!
Sure there is. Northeastern culture is all about that Moo-Lah. Luckily, I was able to find one of 18Montclair's ATM receipts.


https://thoughtcatalog.files.wordpre...icture-131.jpg
 
Old 05-12-2015, 02:33 PM
 
2,474 posts, read 862,103 times
Reputation: 1725
Ask a true Northeasterner, like someone from Boston or Long Island, if Ohio is in the East or the West, and I'm pretty sure he'll tell you its in the West, just like anything beyond the Appalachians.
 
Old 05-12-2015, 02:38 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, LA
1,291 posts, read 1,194,215 times
Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Not at all. The Philadelphia & South Jersey dialects are within the North Midland dialect region, the same as southern Ohio.



NJ speech varies considerably from north to south. I can usually immediate tell if someone is from North Jersey by their accent and mannerisms. On the other hand, I've known quite a few people who have moved here from areas of the Midwest and they can be hard to distinguish from the rest of us. To make it clear, parts of South Jersey do have a rather distinctive accent that can easily identify a native. However, I cannot always pick up on one; many of us don't seem to speak with much of one. I'd say most people speak in what sounds to be a fairly neutral speech, which makes it rather easy for Midwesterners to blend in here.
I cannot trust your map when it incorrectly labels my area. Not just in a minor way either, the differences between New Orleans and the swamps is far too great (the difference between Orleans Parish and St. Bernard - hell - 7th ward residents and Uptown for that matter are far too great!) ... and your map puts Vermillion Parish (a Parish with a local french speaking radio station and businesses that are bilingual in English / French) in the gulf south.
 
Old 05-12-2015, 02:50 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,021,926 times
Reputation: 4857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwahfromtheheart View Post
I cannot trust your map when it incorrectly labels my area. Not just in a minor way either, the differences between New Orleans and the swamps is far too great (the difference between Orleans Parish and St. Bernard - hell - 7th ward residents and Uptown for that matter are far too great!) ... and your map puts Vermillion Parish (a Parish with a local french speaking radio station and businesses that are bilingual in English / French) in the gulf south.
Can't vouch for its accuracy there. It is from a reputable source (Washington Post). It's definitely correct when it puts Philadelphia's and South Jersey's dialect within the North Midland region.
 
Old 05-12-2015, 05:27 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, LA
1,291 posts, read 1,194,215 times
Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
You shouldn't. Ohio straddles many regions, anyway. Hard to fit it into a generic Midwest bubble. Up North it's Great Lakes and similar to Buffalo. In the middle, that middle America feel (which is common in the Midwest but also Pennsylvania) dominates, and down South, you hear some people and think it's Kentucky but diluted. My point is with this thread is that you can argue anything to make a state Northeastern since it sure is a popular thing to do here. Primarily East Coast states get argued over, and with this thread I wanted to show thata Midwest state qualifies more for NE status than. Some of these wannabe Northeast states. Anything is in the Northeast if you look at data that fits your argument, and Ohio fits in well.
I'm sorry I missed your post!

It's easy for me to fit it into a Midwest bubble. It wasn't in the original 13 colonies, the dialect is generally more tied to areas other than the northeast, it's the state where the great lakes start to dominate, and I mean it's Ohio! Everybody in Louisiana says Ohio is in the Midwest, so of course I can put it into a bubble of the Midwest! There's every argument in the world to say South Louisiana could be its own region, but nah ... it's the south. I wouldn't argue that... just unsure why it seems some people feel the need to argue that Ohio is in the north east?

If it's an identity thing then maybe people should own the identity and not care if they're lumped in somehow. That's my outlook on not being so stressed out in life more than anything... not giving a damn what other people think! ♥
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