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Old 05-18-2015, 08:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB View Post
Ohio is Midwestern, this is a stupid debate. Probably the equivalent of, "Should Alabama really be included in the South?"
Do you think it's a stupid debate to argue over regional identity in general or it's a stupid because you disagree?

 
Old 05-18-2015, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,514 posts, read 9,075,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
That's funny, because if that's the case, then even that isn't really the East Coast because only NYC and Boston are coastal unlike the 3 inland cities that are also part of that corridor.

Pretty stupid to consider an inland city like DC or Baltimore "East Coast" and not cities like Charleston or Savannah. Thankfully, most people in the Northeast (or South) even use the term "East Coast" in such an idiotic way. Didn't realize that the Atlantic disappeared below DC. Usually, the only people who use the term "East Coast" to be synonymous with either the Northeast or the "Northeast Corridor" (emphasis on the fact it's just a title) aren't even from anywhere close to Atlantic Coastal states.
It's not stupid, but saying you're from the "East Coast" generally implies you're from one of the big metro areas between Boston and D.C. Charleston is pretty small compared with its northern neighbors and there is no sprawl to connect all the cities as there is between D.C. and Boston. Technically Jacksonville is east coast, but you'd say you're from Jacksonville, not the east coast. They have different meanings.
 
Old 05-19-2015, 09:18 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,892,133 times
Reputation: 4101
What's a leading cultural characteristic of Ohio? Football. Like in Texas, high school football is an institution. Pro football was founded here and the Pro Football Hall of Fame is in Canton.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/neel/011011.html

Ohio State was a main cog in the Old Big Ten, when the league could still count, and that clearly was a Midwestern league.

Since the addition of Maryland, and John Hopkins (for lacrosse only) to the BIG, Ohio State suddenly has become an NCAA lacrosse power.

With Rutgers and Maryland now in the BIG for all sports, more Ohioans will be paying attention to the East than in many decades.

So maybe Ohio is a wee bit more northeastern than a few years ago, but, believe me, Ohio relates more closely to Michigan and Wisconsin than it does to NY, greatly because of the Great Lakes, sports rivalries and more similar economies.

Agriculture also is a massive industry in Ohio. Ohio has one of the great state fairs. The gigantic, All-American Quarter Horse Congress is an annual event in Columbus. These aren't characteristics of the Northeast.

Check out Our Ohio videos. These likely are NOT what you would see in northeastern states.

Our Ohio - Buying Local, Farm and Farmers Markets, Recipes, Grow & Know Events, Our Ohio Magazine, Agriculture Education

Even Cleveland, located amid some of the most productive agricultural regions in the U.S., and surrounded on the east and south by Ohio Amish Country, the largest Amish community in the world, has a very heavy locavore emphasis. This is evidenced by its West Side Market, one of the very best surviving public food markets in the U.S., and its pervasive farmers markets, and the locavore emphasis of leading restaurants.

Check out Jeni's in Columbus, ranked by many as making the best artisan ice cream in the U.S., with its heavy locavore emphasis. Ditto, with competitor Mitchell's in Cleveland, where, for example, Geauga County maple walnut is a seasonal favorite in the spring.

While northeastern Ohio, once largely the Connecticut Western Reserve, has a strong historical New England influence, it has much more in common with Wisconsin, northern Illinois and Michigan, than with Boston and New York City, especially the Great Lakes, if nothing else.

It's strange that little emphasis in this thread has been placed on the great geographical characteristics of Ohio -- the Great Lakes, the Ohio River and the prairie remnants, none of which have much in common with the Northeast, but are integral to defining the Midwest.

OPA FAQ Page 1

Also consider that Cuyahoga County, where Cleveland is located, has a population density less than half that of Los Angeles County, noted for its urban sprawl. This certainly isn't a characteristic of the densely populated urban areas of the Northeast. This lower density, reflected in attributes such as Cleveland's "Emerald Necklace," results in a very different urban living experience than would be common in the Northeast. The Battelle Darby Creek Metro Park in Columbus even has a small bison herd!

The premise of this entire thread is ridiculous IMO.

Last edited by WRnative; 05-19-2015 at 09:37 AM..
 
Old 05-19-2015, 09:36 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,048,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
It's strange that little emphasis in this thread has been placed on the great geographical characteristics of Ohio -- the Great Lakes, the Ohio River and the prairie remnants, none of which have much in common with the Northeast, but are integral to defining the Midwest.
Much of New York State borders a Great Lake. Many upstate NY cities aren't that different density-wise than Cleveland. Boston has an "emerald necklace":

Emerald Necklace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 05-19-2015, 09:47 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,540 posts, read 17,773,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post

So maybe Ohio is a wee bit more northeastern than a few years ago, but, believe me, Ohio relates more closely to Michigan and Wisconsin than it does to NY, greatly because of the Great Lakes, sports rivalries and more similar economies.
NY is on the Great Lakes. NY has sports rivalries. NY has the manufacturing (rust belt) and agricultural (23% of land area) economies.

But this all points to (western) NY having affinities to the Midwest more than Ohio having affinities to the Northeast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
The premise of this entire thread is ridiculous IMO.
Agreed.
 
Old 05-19-2015, 10:28 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,365 posts, read 7,041,802 times
Reputation: 4865
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
What's a leading cultural characteristic of Ohio? Football. Like in Texas, high school football is an institution. Pro football was founded here and the Pro Football Hall of Fame is in Canton.

ESPN.com - Page2 - 'Go Tigers' balances passion, fanaticism

Ohio State was a main cog in the Old Big Ten, when the league could still count, and that clearly was a Midwestern league.

Since the addition of Maryland, and John Hopkins (for lacrosse only) to the BIG, Ohio State suddenly has become an NCAA lacrosse power.

With Rutgers and Maryland now in the BIG for all sports, more Ohioans will be paying attention to the East than in many decades.

So maybe Ohio is a wee bit more northeastern than a few years ago, but, believe me, Ohio relates more closely to Michigan and Wisconsin than it does to NY, greatly because of the Great Lakes, sports rivalries and more similar economies.

Agriculture also is a massive industry in Ohio. Ohio has one of the great state fairs. The gigantic, All-American Quarter Horse Congress is an annual event in Columbus. These aren't characteristics of the Northeast.

Check out Our Ohio videos. These likely are NOT what you would see in northeastern states.

Our Ohio - Buying Local, Farm and Farmers Markets, Recipes, Grow & Know Events, Our Ohio Magazine, Agriculture Education

Even Cleveland, located amid some of the most productive agricultural regions in the U.S., and surrounded on the east and south by Ohio Amish Country, the largest Amish community in the world, has a very heavy locavore emphasis. This is evidenced by its West Side Market, one of the very best surviving public food markets in the U.S., and its pervasive farmers markets, and the locavore emphasis of leading restaurants.

Check out Jeni's in Columbus, ranked by many as making the best artisan ice cream in the U.S., with its heavy locavore emphasis. Ditto, with competitor Mitchell's in Cleveland, where, for example, Geauga County maple walnut is a seasonal favorite in the spring.

While northeastern Ohio, once largely the Connecticut Western Reserve, has a strong historical New England influence, it has much more in common with Wisconsin, northern Illinois and Michigan, than with Boston and New York City, especially the Great Lakes, if nothing else.

It's strange that little emphasis in this thread has been placed on the great geographical characteristics of Ohio -- the Great Lakes, the Ohio River and the prairie remnants, none of which have much in common with the Northeast, but are integral to defining the Midwest.

OPA FAQ Page 1

Also consider that Cuyahoga County, where Cleveland is located, has a population density less than half that of Los Angeles County, noted for its urban sprawl. This certainly isn't a characteristic of the densely populated urban areas of the Northeast. This lower density, reflected in attributes such as Cleveland's "Emerald Necklace," results in a very different urban living experience than would be common in the Northeast. The Battelle Darby Creek Metro Park in Columbus even has a small bison herd!

The premise of this entire thread is ridiculous IMO.
Everything that you claimed is not found in the Northeast can, in fact, be found in the Northeast, except the prairie remnants. The Northeastern States of PA and NY are also Great Lakes states.
 
Old 05-19-2015, 11:20 AM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,857,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
It's not stupid, but saying you're from the "East Coast" generally implies you're from one of the big metro areas between Boston and D.C. Charleston is pretty small compared with its northern neighbors and there is no sprawl to connect all the cities as there is between D.C. and Boston. Technically Jacksonville is east coast, but you'd say you're from Jacksonville, not the east coast. They have different meanings.
There's no sprawl to connect Seattle to LA but Seattle is still a West Coast city. Or is the West Coast only LA-Bay Area to you?

I love these weird definitions based on personal opinion and not reality. I understand that the South is culturally different than the Northeast, but East Coast isn't a cultural designation or density designation, it's geographical. How the hell does one define where the East Coast ends, anyway? What makes the Bos-Wash corridor more "East Coast" than Charleston or Savannah?
 
Old 05-19-2015, 11:31 AM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,857,540 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
NY is on the Great Lakes. NY has sports rivalries. NY has the manufacturing (rust belt) and agricultural (23% of land area) economies.

But this all points to (western) NY having affinities to the Midwest more than Ohio having affinities to the Northeast.




Agreed.
Ah, but does it point to Upstate NY having Midwestern traits or GREAT LAKES traits? The Great Lakes are culturally unique even in the Midwest. Linguistics, demographics, and climate are all consistent across the Great Lakes and they vary from the rest of the Midwest. Nobody in the Midwest outside of the Great Lakes save for St. Louis speaks with a Northern Cities Vowel Shift (which by the way can be found as far East as Western Massachusetts).

The Great Lakes have large proportions of Italians/Polish/Irish/Jews that the rest of the Midwest doesn't have. Once you leave the Great Lakes, most Midwestern cities and states are primarily German with much less ethnic variance in Whites (or anyone for that matter). Climate-wise, the Great Lakes area is a humid continental climate varying between warm and cool summers, and heavily snowy winters. The rest of the Midwest while experiencing snow does not experience the heavy Lake Effect snowfall that the Great Lakes do. The Eastern European culture is weak in the Midwest but strong in the Great Lakes.

Summers in the Great Lakes are more pleasant than in the inland areas of the Central Plains states. Also, Great Lakes states have lower tornadic activity than the Great Plains. This is true whether you're in Pennsylvania, New York, or OH, IN, MI, IL, WI, or MN. The Southern portion of the Midwest states transitions to the humid subtropical climate. Nowhere in the Great Lakes is there a humid subtropical climate by any stretch of the imagination. The majority of the Midwest (by area) speaks in Midland dialects that are also found in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Maryland. The Great Lakes area speak in strictly Northern dialects found in New York, a tiny Northeast tip of Pennsylvania around Scranton, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Western Massachusetts (the Northern Cities Vowel Shift extends that far East). The only Great Plains State with a hint of that dialect is South Dakota, but only the Eastern portion. Elsewhere it's found mostly in the Great Lakes and in what is called the "St. Louis corridor" that follows the Illinois river downstream along I-55 from Chicago to St. Louis.

The Great Lakes are a unique region in the US, where the culture, language, and climate cross Census regions. They have more in common with each other than they do with the rest of the "Midwest".
 
Old 05-19-2015, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,230,944 times
Reputation: 846
This is exhausting. Ohio is Midwestern. Northern Virginia, Maryland and Delaware are the Mid Atlantic, or lower Northeast, along with Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Downstate New York. End of discussion.
 
Old 05-19-2015, 02:02 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,857,540 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
This is exhausting. Ohio is Midwestern. Northern Virginia, Maryland and Delaware are the Mid Atlantic, or lower Northeast, along with Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Downstate New York. End of discussion.
Love it. You use the Census when convenient, and ditch it when it doesn't fit your argument.
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