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Old 10-20-2015, 04:36 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,844,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
Yeah, I have a really hard time believing anyone in Ohio sounds like this:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEj22O1tMRU

"Take me Haaoooome" "let me da **** in da cahr den"
The long O sound is a big part of the Cincy accent, bud. Elsewhere in Ohio it's not as strong but south of Columbus it gets stronger. Not heard in Cleveland though. Youtube Cincy accent and then YouTube Philly accent. While you're at it, Google "Midland" dialects.

 
Old 10-20-2015, 04:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Philly and south Jersey don't have neutral accents, I'm sorry. It may be close to neutral but Philly and Baltimore have unique quirks to the way they talk that Cincinnati doesn't. People from Baltimore and Philly don't have General American accents like Cincy does. It may be neutral in younger generations, but older generations sound anything but neutral.
Well, dialect maps group Philly, Baltimore, and Cincy in the Midland region. Who said Cincy was a neutral accent, anyway? It has an odd tense-lax system not heard elsewhere in the Midwest. That's not neutral. This feature alone classes Cincy and it's accent as not General American. There is also partial glide deletion heard in Cincy that you don't hear in General American.
 
Old 10-20-2015, 04:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I guess, I don't hear much similarities. I'd probably find the Midland region less neutral than say, western Connecticut or Massachusetts. [I'm not from Massachusetts originally, but from downstate NY]
Linguists class the Midland region as the most close to General American precisely because it is hard to detect as Northern or Southern. It doesn't have enough consistent features to be classed in one category other than "American". Neutrality or generality is determined by whether the features of said dialect lean more to one region or another. The dialects of Pennsylvania, NJ, Delaware, Northern Maryland, Ohio, Indiana, Central and Southern Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, and Oklahoma have features that show no strong lean in either direction, why is why they are Midland. CT and Massachusetts accents have enough Northern characteristics to be placed in the Northern category.

Northern speech sounds neutral to you because you're from the North. People rarely think that their own region has a distinctive accent because that's all they're used to hearing.

Now, this DOES NOT MEAN that Midland dialects can't have their own quirks. In fact, many Midland dialects like Philly, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and St. Louis have features found only in their respective regions. This means that even though are Midland due to not leaning either North or South, they have such strong localized pronunciations that to foreign ears sound as "off". But again, they are still "neutral" enough that unless the person knows each accent specifically, they can't be recognized as anything other than American.

Contrast this with far North cities that have NCVS that is such a distinctive nasal sound that it cannot be considered the Standard because to many people who aren't from the region, it can be a very grating and piercing sound. This is why no newscaster on a national level EVER aspires to Northern Cities accents when learning their diction.

Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 10-20-2015 at 05:01 PM..
 
Old 10-20-2015, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,226,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
The long O sound is a big part of the Cincy accent, bud. Elsewhere in Ohio it's not as strong but south of Columbus it gets stronger. Not heard in Cleveland though. Youtube Cincy accent and then YouTube Philly accent. While you're at it, Google "Midland" dialects.
Midland dialects aside, Ohio is a Midwestern state historically and culturally. Besides that, check out the poll I created. So far 36 think Ohio is Midwestern, 2 think it's Northeastern. You have an uphill battle on your hands.
 
Old 10-20-2015, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Arch City
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[quote=EddieOlSkool;41629131]Well, dialect maps group Philly, Baltimore, and Cincy in the Midland region. Who said Cincy was a neutral accent, anyway? It has an odd tense-lax system not heard elsewhere in the Midwest. That's not neutral. This feature alone classes Cincy and it's accent as not General American. There is also partial glide deletion heard in Cincy that you don't hear in General
 
Old 10-20-2015, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,226,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Linguists class the Midland region as the most close to General American precisely because it is hard to detect as Northern or Southern. It doesn't have enough consistent features to be classed in one category other than "American". Neutrality or generality is determined by whether the features of said dialect lean more to one region or another. The dialects of Pennsylvania, NJ, Delaware, Northern Maryland, Ohio, Indiana, Central and Southern Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, and Oklahoma have features that show no strong lean in either direction, why is why they are Midland. CT and Massachusetts accents have enough Northern characteristics to be placed in the Northern category.

Northern speech sounds neutral to you because you're from the North. People rarely think that their own region has a distinctive accent because that's all they're used to hearing.

Now, this DOES NOT MEAN that Midland dialects can't have their own quirks. In fact, many Midland dialects like Philly, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and St. Louis have features found only in their respective regions. This means that even though are Midland due to not leaning either North or South, they have such strong localized pronunciations that to foreign ears sound as "off". But again, they are still "neutral" enough that unless the person knows each accent specifically, they can't be recognized as anything other than American.

Contrast this with far North cities that have NCVS that is such a distinctive nasal sound that it cannot be considered the Standard because to many people who aren't from the region, it can be a very grating and piercing sound. This is why no newscaster on a national level EVER aspires to Northern Cities accents when learning their diction.
That whole region you just defined sounds more like the North than the South. Southern influences exist in parts of that region but it is never 50% dominant.
Baltimore, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and St. Louis all sound linguistically much more like Northern cities than Southern ones. Being from St. Louis I know this for a fact. We do not sound anything like Louisville or Nashville or Memphis. There is not a trace of Southern in our dialect although Baltimore does have Southern influences on its accent.

Last edited by U146; 10-20-2015 at 08:02 PM..
 
Old 10-20-2015, 07:52 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Contrast this with far North cities that have NCVS that is such a distinctive nasal sound that it cannot be considered the Standard because to many people who aren't from the region, it can be a very grating and piercing sound. This is why no newscaster on a national level EVER aspires to Northern Cities accents when learning their diction.
I find NCVS rather jarring, but Western New England either doesn't have it or so little it's not distinctive to my ears. It's obviously "northern", but not really a strong accent unless you're from the south.
 
Old 10-21-2015, 01:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Midland dialects aside, Ohio is a Midwestern state historically and culturally. Besides that, check out the poll I created. So far 36 think Ohio is Midwestern, 2 think it's Northeastern. You have an uphill battle on your hands.
Ummm, this isn't meant to be a serious thread. Earlier I stated the reason I made this thread was to show the ridiculous notion that states can somehow morph into the Northeast because of arbitrary traits. Basically, even if 100% of Ohioans think they're Midwestern, their state shares enough characteristics with Northeastern (true Northeast not "Northeast lite") states that it stands the test of scrutiny much better than some wannabes.
 
Old 10-21-2015, 02:00 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,844,575 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
That whole region you just defined sounds more like the North than the South. Southern influences exist in parts of that region but it is never 50% dominant.
Baltimore, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and St. Louis all sound linguistically much more like Northern cities than Southern ones. Being from St. Louis I know this for a fact. We do not sound anything like Louisville or Nashville or Memphis. There is not a trace of Southern in our dialect although Baltimore does have Southern influences on its accent.
St. Louis is partially influenced by the Northern accent much more than any other dialect, however. You could say that on ends of the Midland spectrum, St. Louis falls further North because of the connection to cities North and somewhere like Baltimore lies further South on that continuum, whereas somewhere like Philly is neither.

Keep in mind, some speakers in any region will display stronger traits of one aspect than others. Some people in Philly may not have any glide deletion, others may not have the "o" fronted. The Midland region is inconsistent because the Vowel shifts occurring within are not persistent in everyone. Some Midland people sound a bit more Southern, others a bit Northern, but overall it's a hard to place sound. I think when people say "sounds Northern", they typically mean "NOT Southern". Honestly, some would classify General American as a "Northern" sound, anyway. But linguistically, it's "generality" is due to being neither which is why it's thought of as "not there".

One thing where the aforementioned cities DO differ from textbook Northern dialects is they all front the long O vowel. This is seen as part of the "textbook Southern" speech so it is not a Northern trait. Those in Philly, Pittsburgh, Cincy, and St. Louis with this trait are then different than their Northern cousins who never front the long O vowel. So, anyway, does this make these accents Southern? No, but there does exist a distinction between "Northern" accents and Midland. Northern accents do shift away from the "Standard" in their own quirky way.
 
Old 10-21-2015, 06:54 PM
 
Location: NH
161 posts, read 114,543 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Ummm, this isn't meant to be a serious thread. Earlier I stated the reason I made this thread was to show the ridiculous notion that states can somehow morph into the Northeast because of arbitrary traits. Basically, even if 100% of Ohioans think they're Midwestern, their state shares enough characteristics with Northeastern (true Northeast not "Northeast lite") states that it stands the test of scrutiny much better than some wannabes.
What would be "Northeast lite" out of curiosity? initially it makes me think of Delaware or Maryland.. states in the Atlantic seaboard that are somewhat northern but with a southern influence mixed in.
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