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If anything, "Northeastern" is too narrowly defined. Lots of people seem to think it ends at I-81, which is actually pretty stupid. The Northeast can be subdivided into coastal and interior regions. The coastal Northeast is everything along and near I-95, with I-81 as a rough western boundary. The interior Northeast is the mountainous area west of I-81 and north of I-90. That means northern New England, upstate New York, and western and central Pennsylvania are part of this interior region. You might even include the portions of West Virginia adjacent to Pennsylvania as well, since that area is a glaring anomaly in its state, and is actually more similar to western Pennsylvania than it is to the rest of West Virginia.
The Northeast ends as the terrain becomes gradually flatter to the west. If you held a gun to my head and forced me to draw a hard boundary, it'd pass through Erie, PA and Youngstown, OH. West of Erie and Youngstown, the terrain becomes flatter and more arable. East of Erie and Youngstown, the terrain becomes rockier and more mountainous. (Elevations in Pennsylvania rise very rapidly in a short distance from Lake Erie.) And if mountains can help define the West, then they can certainly help define the Northeast, unless you think the Berkshires, Adirondacks, Catskills and Poconos were just given names for no reason. West of Erie and Youngstown, agriculture is the primary driver of rural economies. East of Erie and Youngstown, natural resource extraction is the primary driver of rural economies.
It's as if people from Ohio (particularly Cleveland and other areas nearby) are ashamed of the "Midwest" label somehow, and are trying to convince themselves that they're not part of it. Ohio became a state after 1800, and its three largest cities were all incorporated after 1800 as well. The rural economy in Ohio is heavily dependent on agriculture. Parts of eastern Ohio have difficult terrain, but the highest point in Ohio is still less than 2,000' above sea level. Ohio is a Midwestern state, plain and simple. I should also note that I recently told some people on the Chicago board who were debating the city's Midwesternness that I always considered Chicago to be what a Midwestern city would become if it reached its full potential. In other words, it's perfectly possible to be cosmopolitan and still be Midwestern. There's no need to disown the Midwesternness of Ohio.
What thread was this where people were debating Chicago's Midwestern status?
It's not about Cleveland being ashamed to be associated with the Midwest, it's about the fact that our culture is closer to Buffalo's, Erie's, and Rochester's than Chicago's, Milwaukee's Minneapolis's, Detroit's, or any other city in the Midwest. That's not to say we have nothing in common with those cities, just that we have more in common with the inland East cities, and very very little in common with the plains cities.
It's not about Cleveland being ashamed to be associated with the Midwest, it's about the fact that our culture is closer to Buffalo's, Erie's, and Rochester's than Chicago's, Milwaukee's Minneapolis's, Detroit's, or any other city in the Midwest. That's not to say we have nothing in common with those cities, just that we have more in common with the inland East cities, and very very little in common with the plains cities.
At the end of the day Cleveland is a "border city" in the sense that it is the first or last major city in the midwest. Just so happens that Buffalo and Erie share the same border but on the other side. At the end of the day Cleveland has very little in common with Bos-Wash. While Buffalo and Erie do not either, they are in the same state as some of these cities and therefore share the same government and history.
Another important factor mentioned earlier is when Ohio was established. It's history is WAY different than even Pennsylvania in that it was not an original colony.
It's not about Cleveland being ashamed to be associated with the Midwest, it's about the fact that our culture is closer to Buffalo's, Erie's, and Rochester's than Chicago's, Milwaukee's Minneapolis's, Detroit's, or any other city in the Midwest. That's not to say we have nothing in common with those cities, just that we have more in common with the inland East cities, and very very little in common with the plains cities.
That's not a fact. And the majority of people would disagree with you on that anyway as evidenced by numerous polls on whether or not Cleveland is Midwestern or Southern. So stop.
It's not about Cleveland being ashamed to be associated with the Midwest, it's about the fact that our culture is closer to Buffalo's, Erie's, and Rochester's than Chicago's, Milwaukee's Minneapolis's, Detroit's, or any other city in the Midwest. That's not to say we have nothing in common with those cities, just that we have more in common with the inland East cities, and very very little in common with the plains cities.
One could easily argue that the culture in Buffalo, Erie, and Rochester is more aligned with the Midwest than the Northeast. State borders only define a place from a psychological perspective.
Cleveland is a Midwestern city, but it identifies as a northeastern city? Would that make it "transregional"?
One could easily argue that the culture in Buffalo, Erie, and Rochester is more aligned with the Midwest than the Northeast.
Could you explain exactly what you mean by this? It's an idea that gets thrown a lot by those from the coast, but they never really explain WHY they came to this conclusion. What's so "Midwestern" about these places? If anything, the "Midwest" portion of the Great Lakes was historically influenced by Western New York/New England than the other way around.
Could you explain exactly what you mean by this? It's an idea that gets thrown a lot by those from the coast, but they never really explain WHY they came to this conclusion. What's so "Midwestern" about these places? If anything, the "Midwest" portion of the Great Lakes was historically influenced by Western New York/New England than the other way around.
It's just something that C-D'ers perpetually throw around here on C-D. They see other people saying it so they say it too! I have a feeling many people here have never stepped foot in Buffalo and base their comments on stereotypes. As for what is Midwestern about Buffalo and the other cities? No idea really! I personally think Buffalo is a little bit everything, a little Midwest influence, Northeast(of course) and Canadian.
That's not a fact. And the majority of people would disagree with you on that anyway as evidenced by numerous polls on whether or not Cleveland is Midwestern or Southern. So stop.
If you can keep insisting Baltimore/Maryland are Northeastern than this poster can post his/her thoughts on why Cleveland or Ohio makes a case of being Northeastern
Another relevant question in this debate is which big city we look up to more. Most Midwestern cities look up to Chicago. Clevelanders look up more to New York, even though it's slightly further. Most of my friends from high school went East for college, not west. Most Clevelanders take a trip to New York some time during their high school years, not so frequently Chicago.
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