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Old 05-10-2015, 06:30 AM
 
2,199 posts, read 2,323,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi View Post
Ohio was part of the Northwest Territory, which became the original definition of the Midwest. The expanded definition came after places along and near the Missouri River were more heavily settled. The culture, climate and geography of the expanded portion of the Midwest was substantially the same as the original portion, and the economy was similar too, with the only real difference being that most cities in the expanded portion (Kansas City being a notable exception) were smaller and somewhat less reliant upon manufacturing.
Incorrect. The Northwest was the Northwest. The Midwest originally referred to the belt of states between the Northwest and the South, specifically WV, TN, KY, MO, AR and KS, aka the "middle" of what was then "the west" (everything west of the Appalachian Mountains). The states of the old Northwestern Territory adopted the moniker "midwestern" to try to attract new residents draw to the pastoral and bucolic connotations that the word midwestern then carried.

 
Old 05-10-2015, 11:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Hold on, buddy. The primary climate of the Midwest is practically the same as the Northeast. Both are firmly within the humid continental zone, some with cool summers the further North you go. This is the same whether you're in southern Pennsylvania or Kansas. What differs is tornadic activity, and the Great Lakes region is about as tornado prone as pretty much anywhere in the Northeast. Also, like the Midwest, the southern extremities of the Northeast transitions to humid subtropical in the same vain Southern Missouri and Illinois do, as does Southern Ohio, and of course, Southern Pennsylvania and South Jersey.

The Midwest and the Northeast have the same climate. In fact, the interior Midwest and Northeast are BOTH known for brutal snow.
Portions of Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas and Mizzouri do not get brutal snow that often. Omaha averages 26 inches a year, KC only gets 18 a year. Most of the lakes average 40 to over a 100 inches a year in places.

Its weird that some are declaring the plains as the homogeneous midwestern states. We are the last to be added and still arent accepted to this day. Some call us western, some refer to us as the plains.

And we are not flat. Do some research. These states have a very diverse terrain. Up to 400 ft sandhills that cover 1/4th of Nebraska, badlands/toadstool which is an area that you'd think should be in utah, large buttes and mesas, large hills, two waterfalls, large loess hills, lakes and rivers all over. A geologic land surveyer measured all states and there are 31 states that are more flat than Nebraska. Should i even bring up the land formation of the dakotas? How about Oklahoma or Texas? How about the cool land formations in the flattest plains state (Kansas)? Get off the interstates. These states are unmistakable in their vast, diverse beauty. Unless you reserve beauty to only large mountains and seas, which would be incredibly short-sided and even dumb.

The climate, geology, terrain and economies of the plains states are different from the lakes states.

Last edited by Omahahonors; 05-10-2015 at 12:08 PM..
 
Old 05-10-2015, 12:26 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Incorrect. The Northwest was the Northwest. The Midwest originally referred to the belt of states between the Northwest and the South, specifically WV, TN, KY, MO, AR and KS, aka the "middle" of what was then "the west" (everything west of the Appalachian Mountains). The states of the old Northwestern Territory adopted the moniker "midwestern" to try to attract new residents draw to the pastoral and bucolic connotations that the word midwestern then carried.
Do you have any documentation for that?
 
Old 05-10-2015, 01:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Do you have any documentation for that?
Yes. It is a matter of etymological record. To wit:
Quote:
Midwest (n.) 1926, in U.S. geographical sense, from earlier Midwestern (1889) in reference to a group of states originally listed as W.Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, Kansas, and Arkansas; now generally meaning states somewhat further northwest. Related: Midwesterner.
There is also a great deal of research on the historic conception of the midwest, including the spreading of the term in James Shortridge's seminal book "The Middle West: Its Meaning in American Culture", as well as extensive information in '"Encyclopedia of the Great Plains", David J. Wishart, ed.
 
Old 05-10-2015, 01:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahahonors View Post
How about the cool land formations in the flattest plains state (Kansas)?
Not to quibble with your larger point but Kansas is not the flattest plains state. That is North Dakota (depending on how narrow your definition of the plains states is). And it neither is it the flattest in the midwest as a whole, with both Illinois and Minnesota (in addition to ND) being considerably flatter, and Indiana nearly a statistical tie.
 
Old 05-10-2015, 01:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
Yes but is the armpit more Northeast or Midwest?
Joe, great question.. Technically could OH qualify as both armpit of the Midwest, and the sphincter of the Northeast (?)

/sorry Ohio,.. couldn't resist/
 
Old 05-10-2015, 01:35 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Yes. It is a matter of etymological record. To wit:


There is also a great deal of research on the historic conception of the midwest, including the spreading of the term in James Shortridge's seminal book "The Middle West: Its Meaning in American Culture", as well as extensive information in '"Encyclopedia of the Great Plains", David J. Wishart, ed.
How about a link? I was trying to avoid that word, but that is what documentation means.
 
Old 05-10-2015, 04:14 PM
 
1,054 posts, read 1,835,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Not to quibble with your larger point but Kansas is not the flattest plains state. That is North Dakota (depending on how narrow your definition of the plains states is). And it neither is it the flattest in the midwest as a whole, with both Illinois and Minnesota (in addition to ND) being considerably flatter, and Indiana nearly a statistical tie.
My apologies. Memory of that report must not be serving me well. I lnow there are flatter great lakes states than kansas too. Ill try to remember this in the future.
 
Old 05-10-2015, 04:18 PM
 
2,199 posts, read 2,323,031 times
Reputation: 1941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
How about a link? I was trying to avoid that word, but that is what documentation means.
That's actually not what documentation means, but try these:


https://books.google.com/books?id=n3...0image&f=false


Read the section entitled "Creation of an Image'. Of particular interest, Shortridge notes at the end of the section that Michigan and Ohio were the last states to adopt the moniker "midwestern", sometime after 1910...

or, if you really think that links are "documentation" try this one:

Online Etymology Dictionary

Last edited by SPonteKC; 05-10-2015 at 04:27 PM..
 
Old 05-10-2015, 06:02 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,851,909 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahahonors View Post
Portions of Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas and Mizzouri do not get brutal snow that often. Omaha averages 26 inches a year, KC only gets 18 a year. Most of the lakes average 40 to over a 100 inches a year in places.

Its weird that some are declaring the plains as the homogeneous midwestern states. We are the last to be added and still arent accepted to this day. Some call us western, some refer to us as the plains.

And we are not flat. Do some research. These states have a very diverse terrain. Up to 400 ft sandhills that cover 1/4th of Nebraska, badlands/toadstool which is an area that you'd think should be in utah, large buttes and mesas, large hills, two waterfalls, large loess hills, lakes and rivers all over. A geologic land surveyer measured all states and there are 31 states that are more flat than Nebraska. Should i even bring up the land formation of the dakotas? How about Oklahoma or Texas? How about the cool land formations in the flattest plains state (Kansas)? Get off the interstates. These states are unmistakable in their vast, diverse beauty. Unless you reserve beauty to only large mountains and seas, which would be incredibly short-sided and even dumb.

The climate, geology, terrain and economies of the plains states are different from the lakes states.
Everything you said is true. But it also applies to the Northeast. The brutal snow only hits the inner Northeast and far north, just like the Midwest. But as you get further south in places like South Jersey, Philly, and Delaware, winters are more mild. Also, the terrain is variable in the Northeast, becoming hillier in interior areas and flatter toward the coast.
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