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Old 05-27-2015, 12:08 AM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,197,912 times
Reputation: 1329

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
How? How do you maintain high ceilings? Attics? What exactly makes it more expensive to maintain? Please provide some sort of explanation b/c I don't see what you're talking about at all.
Certain structural design features don't really have to be maintained often, like the high ceilings, or the attics; they just need a check-up here and there, maybe some structure replacement in case some parts get worn out. Instead, the expenses will be concentrated more on unique designs of the home to cool it without A/C, such as the convective cooling systems, dehumidifiers, etc; such systems would have to be checked freqently, as any little mishap can cause the complete non-functioning of such designs, hence the expenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Well actual residential AC usage says otherwise. I'll take quantifiable facts over your opinion.
Those quantifiable facts only show that A/C is being used, and say nothing at all about why it is being used.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
You could problem lessen the demand and usage of AC, but I highly doubt you're going to convince many people to give it up completely, especially in the workplace.
Unless I show the people natural ways of cooling the home effectively in the absence of A/C, all without the huge energy bill associated with A/C:
No Air Conditioner? How to Keep Your Cool No Matter How Hot it Gets
8 Easy Ways to Cool Your Home Without AC | HomeTips


Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
I never denied that nor did I ever assume everyone hails CA as the best climate.
I guess what I am trying to say with all of this is that, given the types of environments the tropical people grew up in, I don't feel that too many would want to just make a straight out leap into the climate of coastal California, and automatically enjoy it; they probably want, at least, an element of familiarity in their choice, and thus, the coastal South would win out over coastal California with such a choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
I was simply going on the designation given to them by the National Weather Service, aka "Severe".
The thing is that, if the definition is correct, an otherwise run-of-the-mill thunderstorm can earn that designation just because wind-speeds were a little bit too high:
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/box/watchvswarn.html

The real "severe" thunderstorms, super-cells, don't really occur in the South; they are more of a Great Plains thing:
Supercell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
And all those famed tropical resorts still have AC...
Even if so, you always hear tourists talk about how great the weather is in those locales. Why don't they do the same for the South, which has the same weather as such locales during the summer?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Very comfortable overall. Not sure why you keep squabbling over semantics here.
Because, if you want to be truly comfortable in a home without A/C, you are going to need more than just windows, and fans, whether in coastal California, or the coastal South.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
While some of the facts you provide about natural cooling techniques can be helpful, everything else comes off as pure delusion imo.
No delusions, just a different take from popular opinion, to say the least. Also an inquire to logically challenge commonly held beliefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Except they aren't 'new' concepts, they are old concepts, practices people have used for ages before the advent of AC. Concepts that went by the wayside when AC became widely available.

Nobody denies you can live without heat and AC, nobody thinks the south was a vast barren region practically devoid of life before AC.
But there is a huge difference between saying the south is 'livable' without heat and and AC and the reality which is that in current times most buildings are not optimal for such living. Most people also prefer the cooler less humid temps that can only be had with AC

The only places where it makes much sense are areas within a few miles of the coast lines, and only if the buildings are properly situated and constructed, and only if the people 'living' there rarely have to leave and subject themselves to the 'real world'. In other words great for those who are on vacation, don't have to work for a living, or raise families.

You keep preaching and working at it and maybe in another 50 -75 years you can convince everyone that the current situation can be changed. See to it that building codes meet the standards for your utopia and then maybe, just maybe you might get a few more people to agree with your POV.
Unlike other countries with subtropical climates, the US, as a whole, hasn't really done a good job in accommodating to subtropical living, making life in such hot, humid climates easy without A/C. In order to accommodate, many things are going to have to be radically changed...

 
Old 05-27-2015, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
1,235 posts, read 1,357,749 times
Reputation: 1534
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS View Post
San Diego is the only city I can think of where a/c nor heat is needed for most of the year. Winters can get a bit chilly, where some want heat, but throwing on a blanket can cure that.
It is a myth that San Diego has "better" or more moderate weather than LA or Orange County. Anything by the coast in So.Calif. (LA, SD and Orange County) will have very similar weather.
 
Old 05-27-2015, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Westminster/Huntington Beach, CA
1,780 posts, read 1,242,969 times
Reputation: 1196
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetLegal View Post
It is a myth that San Diego has "better" or more moderate weather than LA or Orange County. Anything by the coast in So.Calif. (LA, SD and Orange County) will have very similar weather.
True. But there are subtle differences.

Coronado, CA has warmer nighttime temperatures but lower daytime temperatures. In August it could be 78 in the day and 71 at night on a fairly consistent basis.

Up north, the south facing beaches like Long Beach and Santa Monica are also warmer than other cities.
 
Old 05-27-2015, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 4,263,451 times
Reputation: 3145
I vote SF.

I don't have A/C. I have a steam radiator that I turn on maybe six or seven days per year, total, and even then I leave my windows open when it's on to moderate it.

My windows stay open year round. I have a ceiling fan that I use about as often as I use the radiator--only on the rare days in early Spring or Fall, when there isn't a Pacific breeze. That prevailing wind, blowing over the cold marine layer is the constant air conditioner and moderator of the weather in SF.

I'm fortunate to have west and north facing windows to maximize that breeze and I am far enough on the eastern side of the City to avoid fog most days, even when the areas closer to the beach are foggy. So, pretty much perfect.
 
Old 05-27-2015, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,395,878 times
Reputation: 2895
Death Valley.
 
Old 05-27-2015, 09:56 AM
 
3,751 posts, read 3,716,353 times
Reputation: 3526
IMO there isn't a single city in the US where at least one or the other isn't necessary for comfort. Not saying you can't live without them, but to expect comfort all the time without it even in San Diego is unrealistic.
 
Old 05-27-2015, 10:12 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,462 posts, read 25,405,649 times
Reputation: 8936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
Certain structural design features don't really have to be maintained often, like the high ceilings, or the attics; they just need a check-up here and there, maybe some structure replacement in case some parts get worn out. Instead, the expenses will be concentrated more on unique designs of the home to cool it without A/C, such as the convective cooling systems, dehumidifiers, etc; such systems would have to be checked freqently, as any little mishap can cause the complete non-functioning of such designs, hence the expenses.
So what makes dehumidifiers and convective cooling systems more expensive and difficult to maintain than AC?
Quote:
Those quantifiable facts only show that A/C is being used, and say nothing at all about why it is being used
What other reason would people be using it aside from wanting to cool their home or businesses?
Quote:
Unless I show the people natural ways of cooling the home effectively in the absence of A/C, all without the huge energy bill associated with A/C:
No Air Conditioner? How to Keep Your Cool No Matter How Hot it Gets
8 Easy Ways to Cool Your Home Without AC | HomeTips
Well let us know when you've convinced someone other than yourself...
Quote:
I guess what I am trying to say with all of this is that, given the types of environments the tropical people grew up in, I don't feel that too many would want to just make a straight out leap into the climate of coastal California, and automatically enjoy it; they probably want, at least, an element of familiarity in their choice, and thus, the coastal South would win out over coastal California with such a choice.
The problem is you assume familiarity somehow equates to preference.
Quote:
The thing is that, if the definition is correct, an otherwise run-of-the-mill thunderstorm can earn that designation just because wind-speeds were a little bit too high:
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/box/watchvswarn.html

The real "severe" thunderstorms, super-cells, don't really occur in the South; they are more of a Great Plains thing:
Supercell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'll take the NWS definition of a storm over yours, no offense lol.
Quote:
Even if so, you always hear tourists talk about how great the weather is in those locales. Why don't they do the same for the South, which has the same weather as such locales during the summer?
They're not on vacation, they don't live beach side next to clear, turquoise waters with prevailing trade winds, it's not exactly the same climate, etc...
Quote:
Because, if you want to be truly comfortable in a home without A/C, you are going to need more than just windows, and fans, whether in coastal California, or the coastal South.
No you really don't in Coastal CA. I guess being from such hot and humid climate it's hard for you to fathom that such a climate exists where you don't need all these steps to keep your house comfortable but that is the case in much of coastal Ca. Maybe you should spend some time living there and see for yourself. There is a reason why CA overall and especially the coastal zone has such low overall energy usage.
Quote:
No delusions, just a different take from popular opinion, to say the least. Also an inquire to logically challenge commonly held beliefs.
Well more like a denial of reality lol
 
Old 05-27-2015, 12:58 PM
 
6,483 posts, read 4,069,179 times
Reputation: 16747
I can only speak for myself, but I live in Southern California about 15 miles from the beach, and although we have heat and a/c, we never use them. Typically there is about a week in the summer when the heat is truly uncomfortable and we just endure it. Ironically, this only happens when humid monsoonal moisture comes up from the South. The rest of the time, it's absolutely fine and comfortable--not "paradise," which is silly, but comfortable for living.

This does include wearing a sweater in the house during the cooler weather because frankly it's ridiculous to think that "comfort" requires heating our house to the point that we can wander around in our underwear in the winter. Just my opinion, of course.
 
Old 05-27-2015, 05:30 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,197,912 times
Reputation: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
So what makes dehumidifiers and convective cooling systems more expensive and difficult to maintain than AC?
The constancy that those devices have to be maintained with to keep them working in comparison to A/C. The costs eventually add up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
What other reason would people be using it aside from wanting to cool their home or businesses?
Why We Need AC? Part 1. Why We Need Air-Conditioners?
Be sure to read each of the parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Well let us know when you've convinced someone other than yourself...
Already have. And there are already people who agree with my ideas, including on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
The problem is you assume familiarity somehow equates to preference.
Familiarity, often times, is a big reason why people prefer certain things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
I'll take the NWS definition of a storm over yours, no offense lol.
And I provided the NWS definition in my post; because of the limits set by the organization, an otherwise run-of-the-mill thunderstorm can become severe, just because wind-speeds at some point were a little-bit too high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
They're not on vacation, they don't live beach side next to clear, turquoise waters with prevailing trade winds, it's not exactly the same climate, etc...
Conditions in the South during summer = year-round conditions on many tropical islands.

Yet, people talk all the time about living on those islands, beyond just vacationing, then turn around, and deride the South's summers. Very strange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
No you really don't in Coastal CA. I guess being from such hot and humid climate it's hard for you to fathom that such a climate exists where you don't need all these steps to keep your house comfortable but that is the case in much of coastal Ca. Maybe you should spend some time living there and see for yourself. There is a reason why CA overall and especially the coastal zone has such low overall energy usage.
Nope, lots of things in the home can create the perception of heat, including electronics, or the body heat from other people inhabiting the house with you. A lot more has to be done than just fans and windows if you want to reach maximum comfort, without the threat of any mustiness or annoyance. This applies even in temperate coastal California.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Well more like a denial of reality lol
Or a showcasing of reality people often don't take into consideration.
 
Old 05-27-2015, 05:55 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,462 posts, read 25,405,649 times
Reputation: 8936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
The constancy that those devices have to be maintained with to keep them working in comparison to A/C. The costs eventually add up.
You have explained or provided any proof on how it's cheaper than maintaining AC. It seems like you're just making stuff up.

"As far as maintenance costs go, dehumidifiers are really cheap because they donít need a lot in that respect."

How Much Does It Cost to Run a Dehumidifier?
Quote:
Why We Need AC? Part 1. Why We Need Air-Conditioners?
Be sure to read each of the parts.
From the last part in Part 2: "In short the AC produces comfort conditions in which the human beings tend to feel highly comfortable. In these conditions the working efficiency of the human beings becomes maximum; hence they are able to work with greater vigor."

So people are using Ac to cool their homes and businesses to comfortable temperatures, as I already said. All your article did is explain what causes those higher temps indoors. Not sure what you thought you were actually proving with that article.
Quote:
Already have. And there are already people who agree with my ideas, including on this forum.
Oh please show me where because all I see is everyone disagreeing with you.
Quote:
Familiarity, often times, is a big reason why people prefer certain things.
Sure but less so when they're introduced to something better, more convenient, more comfortable, etc..
Quote:
And I provided the NWS definition in my post; because of the limits set by the organization, an otherwise run-of-the-mill thunderstorm can become severe, just because wind-speeds at some point were a little-bit too high.
Ok whatever, classify them however you want they're still severe in the NWS's and other people's eyes.
Quote:
Conditions in the South during summer = year-round conditions on many tropical islands.

Yet, people talk all the time about living on those islands, beyond just vacationing, then turn around, and deride the South's summers. Very strange.
It's not the same. Look at the average wind speed during summer in a city like Honolulu and compare it to Mobile, Houston, New Orleans, etc..in summer. They don't get the same "refreshing sea breezes" like you try to claim.
Quote:
Nope, lots of things in the home can create the perception of heat, including electronics, or the body heat from other people inhabiting the house with you. A lot more has to be done than just fans and windows if you want to reach maximum comfort, without the threat of any mustiness or annoyance. This applies even in temperate coastal California.
Well many people that have actually lived in coastal CA clearly disagree with you including myself. Not sure why you think you're some authority on telling how comfortable it is to live in coastal Ca w/o AC when you never have.

Not only that, coastal CA has very low energy usage and few homes with AC.
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