U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-20-2015, 10:45 AM
 
29,947 posts, read 27,432,479 times
Reputation: 18534

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
A "dense core" has nothing to do with culture. How is that a cultural element? That's something that many (not all) cities in the Northeast have in common, but that's not a cultural element. That's a similarity in the spatial environment.
You're right, but I just thought I'd throw that in there.

Quote:
Things like grits, sweet tea or the Southern Baptist Church, on the other hand, are cultural staples that are ubiquitous in much of the Southern United States. The Northeast and the Midwest don't really have anything that compares to those.

The only thing that distinguishes the Northeast completely from cities elsewhere are the demographics. NOWHERE in the United States outside of the Northeast do you have similar percentages of White ethnic ancestry. Northeastern Ohio may be the closest thing (which is why some argue it's "Northeastern").
Although Catholics can be found in every corner of the nation, it seems that they are most heavily concentrated in the Northeast/Midwest (the collective North from a historical perspective).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-20-2015, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,269 posts, read 26,273,936 times
Reputation: 11729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
You're right, but I just thought I'd throw that in there.
I gotcha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Although Catholics can be found in every corner of the nation, it seems that they are most heavily concentrated in the Northeast/Midwest (the collective North from a historical perspective).
I think one story that's common in mostNortheastern cities is White ethnics locking up trade unions and local politics (and organized crime). Even today, the Irish exert way more political power than their actual numbers in the city of Boston would suggest. That's the advantage of getting there first, I suppose.

Quote:
But Philadelphia’s unions — particularly the building trade unions — would outlast those elsewhere, because the city had a core stronger, even, than steel: It had the Irish. It had the Italians. It had the Polish. That is, it had neighborhoods.

“Sheet-metal workers, carpenters, masons, electricians. Great strength,” says Walter Licht, the Annenberg professor of history at the University of Pennsylvania. “That strength came from ethnic kinship.”
The Last Union Town - Articles

That seems to have been the case in most Northeastern cities. Although construction unions, the NYPD and FDNY have greatly diversified their ranks, they're still viewed as largely Italian-Irish entities, and there's more than a grain of truth to that.

The other side of that coin is friction between African Americans/Hispanics and White ethnics. That's likely why Blacks and Puerto Ricans have had such close ties since the 40s and 50s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2015, 11:52 AM
 
29,947 posts, read 27,432,479 times
Reputation: 18534
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistrictSonic View Post
I think this illustrates DC's northernerness than.
DC has a significant presence of Catholics and Catholic Universities, and not much in the way of southern evangelicism (it is practically non-existant outside of black churches). It is not until you get to the virginia exurbs that these more southern aspects creep up. Again the white protestant churches that are here tend to be either mainline or northern liberal.
But DC is not heavily Catholic; only 15% of the population that considers itself religious from what I see. That's lower than its counterparts in the Bos-Wash corridor (26% for Philly and NYC, 47% for Boston) and not too much different from Southern cities like Raleigh (11%), Atlanta (10%), and Charlotte (9%).

Quote:
In terms of ethnicity, the area whites are "german" identified in terms of ancestory in the DC and Maryland area, basically something more typical with the great lakes states and Pennsylvania, and "American" (basically Southern WASP) does not start until you get past richmond. The difference is the germanic ancestory is several generations in at this point as they were part of the early waves of immigrants. But they do identify ancestory with a list of European heritages.

With that being said, the DC area is where the southern black belt, and the northern german belt meet. American ethnicity map shows melting pot of ethnicities that make up the USA today | Daily Mail Online
I'm not as familiar with the history of White ethnic immigration to DC, but I do know like other Southern cities, DC has had a large Black population from the beginning and was also a destination city during the Great Migration like Northern cities, although Jim Crow laws were in place during that time.

And of course, DC lacks the history of heavy industry of other Northern cities which is marked difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2015, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,269 posts, read 26,273,936 times
Reputation: 11729
These numbers represent the Italian, Irish and Polish population in 2000 (pre-gentrification). Moving from Philadelphia (if we consider Philly the northern end of the Mid Atlantic) on down to Norfolk.

Philadelphia - 292,275 (19.3%/46.9% of NHWs)
Wilmington - 10,001 (13.8%/45.6% of NHWs)
Baltimore - 53,536 (8.2%/27.5% of NHWs)
Washington - 34,779 (6.0%/23.7% of NHWs)
Richmond - 11,450 (5.8%/16.4% of NHWs)
Norfolk - 21,436 (9.1%/21.2% of NHWs)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2015, 12:39 PM
 
29,947 posts, read 27,432,479 times
Reputation: 18534
^Norfolk's figure surprises me a bit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2015, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Prince George's County, Maryland
6,212 posts, read 7,396,878 times
Reputation: 2581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbank007 View Post
The mid-atlantic is frequently described as an area of the east coast that blends cultural elements of the northeast and southeast. I am going to use the southern portion of the mid-atlantic region as defined by Wikipedia (Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia) since these are normally the most controversial areas. For each city, how much would you describe the current culture using a southern/northern gradient. For example, I view Washington, DC as 60% northern and 40% southern culturally.

Here is the city list:

Wilmington Delaware
Baltimore
Annapolis
Morgantown WV
Charleston WV
Washington DC
Charlottesville
Richmond
Virginia Beach/Norfolk
That's how I view it for DC. It's a city with a Northeastern vibe and Southeastern undertone mixed into one. This mixture is pretty evident in DC's architecture, physical layout, culture, history, accent/dialect, racial/ethnic demographics, housing stock, mentality, work ethic, suburbs, public transportation, cuisine, governance, pace of life, climate, general vibe, and even the vegetation. Always makes for a very interesting city, and Baltimore and even both Richmond and Hampton Roads are the same way as well (Virginia is a Southern state yes but like I always say, culture knows no boundaries).

Personally, I love this geo-cultural mix for the DC area

Last edited by tcave360; 05-20-2015 at 04:27 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2015, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,269 posts, read 26,273,936 times
Reputation: 11729
It's also sort of interesting when you compare the number of people in these metros claiming single ancestry. Once you're south of Philadelphia, there are more people claiming English as a single ancestry than Italian.

Boston
Italian - 237,823
English - 114,701

New York
Italian - 1,310,316
English - 133,011

Philadelphia
Italian - 334,546
English - 104,627

Baltimore
Italian - 59,127
English - 64,144

Washington
Italian - 83,243
English - 134,532

Same thing is true for First Ancestry.

Boston
Italian - 490,708
English - 270,663

New York
Italian - 2,199,079
English - 340,837

Philadelphia
Italian - 659,321
English - 248,146

Baltimore
Italian - 133,484
English - 138,638

Washington
Italian - 204,627
English - 278,535
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2015, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Prince George's County, Maryland
6,212 posts, read 7,396,878 times
Reputation: 2581
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistrictSonic View Post
I think this illustrates DC's northernerness than.
DC has a significant presence of Catholics and Catholic Universities, and not much in the way of southern evangelicism (it is practically non-existant outside of black churches). It is not until you get to the virginia exurbs that these more southern aspects creep up. Again the white protestant churches that are here tend to be either mainline or northern liberal.

In terms of ethnicity, the area whites are "german" identified in terms of ancestory in the DC and Maryland area, basically something more typical with the great lakes states and Pennsylvania, and "American" (basically Southern WASP) does not start until you get past richmond. The difference is the germanic ancestory is several generations in at this point as they were part of the early waves of immigrants. But they do identify ancestory with a list of European heritages.

With that being said, the DC area is where the southern black belt, and the northern german belt meet. American ethnicity map shows melting pot of ethnicities that make up the USA today | Daily Mail Online


So if one were to ask whether they were southern, it is pretty easy to see why there is absolute push away from that identity in DC, and why mid-atlantic and northern is used. I stress northern, not northeastern. Never mind the statues of lincoln everywhere in the city.

Virginia is a different story, but it always is. Virginia is complicated. But I would say without question more southern than anything else.
Pretty much this.

And despite it being more Southern than DC and Maryland, Virginia is surprisingly strong on the religious and ethnic diversity front.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2015, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Prince George's County, Maryland
6,212 posts, read 7,396,878 times
Reputation: 2581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
But DC is not heavily Catholic; only 15% of the population that considers itself religious from what I see. That's lower than its counterparts in the Bos-Wash corridor (26% for Philly and NYC, 47% for Boston) and not too much different from Southern cities like Raleigh (11%), Atlanta (10%), and Charlotte (9%).



I'm not as familiar with the history of White ethnic immigration to DC, but I do know like other Southern cities, DC has had a large Black population from the beginning and was also a destination city during the Great Migration like Northern cities, although Jim Crow laws were in place during that time.

And of course, DC lacks the history of heavy industry of other Northern cities which is marked difference.
There's a few industrial areas in DC but compared to say Baltimore, Philly, New York, Newark, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit, St. Louis, etc., it's not as pervasive nor was it as important historically to the City's economy. There's even some cities in the South with a more significant industrial presence and history than DC such as Birmingham, New Orleans, Jacksonville, Richmond, Houston, Mobile, and even Atlanta.

White ethnic immigration in DC was fairly different and more profound than most cities in the South except for New Orleans, Savannah, and maybe Mobile but not as heavily prominent as Philly, New York, Chicago, etc. DC used to have its fair share of ethnic white neighborhoods throughout Northwest, Southwest, parts of Northeast, and parts of Southeast west of the Anacostia.

The strong presence and history of the Black population since the City's conception when it was just Georgetown, MD and Alexandria, VA (part of Southwest DC before being receded back to VA prior to the Civil War) and its current status as arguably the best city/metro area in the country along with ATL for Black Americans of all types could be viewed as something akin to Southern cultural traits.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2015, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,269 posts, read 26,273,936 times
Reputation: 11729
I wonder how many cities never had any ethnic white neighborhoods at any point in their history.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top