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Old 05-29-2015, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
Reputation: 11726

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
No need to get emotional and full of yourself in all of this. Just pointing out that there are exceptions in everything in which case, these two metros among others do and coming from an Orlando perspective, it's always had a decent sized Black population.
How am I emotional and full of myself? It's simply obvious you didn't read my other posts because if you had you would have seen that I said that cities like Charlotte and Raleigh receive a lot of attention because of their relatively large Black middle classes. You are under the assumption that I set out to define the word "large" when that really wasn't the case. I only said that Milwaukee's Black population wasn't large enough to put it on the radar with cities noted for their Black population. I also said that its Black population was not well-educated enough to put it on the radar with smaller metros that have more educated Black populations.

In other words, there's nothing particularly noteworthy about Milwaukee as far as Black people are concerned.
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Again, the Italian example doesn't apply when you are looking at metros like Milwaukee, Indianapolis and Cincinnati, as those 3 not only have relatively high Black metro populations, but have pretty high city and above national average Black percentages. It is just a different comparison.
I don't see why it wouldn't. You can't flip flop on your standards. You said you couldn't see why Milwaukee's Black population wouldn't be considered "large" given that it has the 30th largest Black population in the country. If that's the case, then Atlanta's Italian population should also be considered "large" because it's probably the 25th metro or so based on size alone. You can't waffle now and start introducing all of these other factors. I mean, are you saying Atlanta's Italian population is "not large"?

The word "large" at the end of the day is a red herring. What Atlanta and Milwaukee both have in common is that their Italian and Black populations, respectively, are not large enough to put them into the conversation with metros known for those populations.

You said earlier that people don't think much about Milwaukee's Black population because it's in Wisconsin. I think people don't think much about Milwaukee's Black population because it is not exceptional in its size, percentage, rate of educational attainment among African Americans, or in any other positive way.
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:07 AM
 
29,932 posts, read 27,365,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Again, the Italian example doesn't apply when you are looking at metros like Milwaukee, Indianapolis and Cincinnati, as those 3 not only have relatively high Black metro populations, but have pretty high city and above national average Black percentages. It is just a different comparison: https://www.niaf.org/culture/statistics/5187-2/

BlackDemographics.com | Black City Population

There are Black people that know that Milwaukee is where Mike McGee, a former alderman started the Black Panther Militia or that musicians like Al Jarreau and Speech from the Hip Hop group Arrested Development are from there, among other things. So, it may depend on who you ask or talk to.
I don't think it's that people don't know about Milwaukee, but it's just not among the cities talked about very often when it comes to Black culture or a relocation destination for Blacks--or anyone else for that matter. There's a generally recognized hierarchy in place here and there are logical reasons why a city like Milwaukee is where it is in that hierarchy. That doesn't make it a bad city and there are Blacks doing well there, but it's generally about the numbers across a couple of different categories at this point.
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I don't think it's that people don't know about Milwaukee, but it's just not among the cities talked about very often when it comes to Black culture or a relocation destination for Blacks--or anyone else for that matter. There's a generally recognized hierarchy in place here and there are logical reasons why a city like Milwaukee is where it is in that hierarchy. That doesn't make it a bad city and there are Blacks doing well there, but it's generally about the numbers across a couple of different categories at this point.
Basically. There are about 40 different metros that could go ahead of Milwaukee as a "Black" city just as there are about 40 metros (probably fewer actually) that could go ahead of Atlanta as an "Italian" city. Both are pretty far down the pecking order when it comes to those populations.
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,633 posts, read 27,056,837 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
How am I emotional and full of myself? It's simply obvious you didn't read my other posts because if you had you would have seen that I said that cities like Charlotte and Raleigh receive a lot of attention because of their relatively large Black middle classes. You are under the assumption that I set out to define the word "large" when that really wasn't the case. I only said that Milwaukee's Black population wasn't large enough to put it on the radar with cities noted for their Black population. I also said that its Black population was not well-educated enough to put it on the radar with smaller metros that have more educated Black populations.

In other words, there's nothing particularly noteworthy about Milwaukee as far as Black people are concerned.
Well I missed that part as I came in late into the conversation so my apologies for missing your point on cities such as Raleigh and Orlando.
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
Reputation: 11726
So would the hierarchy look like this?

Tier 1a ("All Black Errythang!")

DC (30.1%)
Atlanta (27.1%)

Tier 1b ("Just a crapload of all kinds of Black folks")

NYC (22.6%)

Tier 2a ("Black people flocking there in droves")

Houston (24.2%)
Dallas (23.1%)

Tier 2b ("Hey, we're no Atlanta or DC, but we're no slouches either")

Los Angeles (24.0%)
Chicago (20.1%)
Philadelphia (18.0%)
Miami (17.2%)

Tier 2c ("Seen better days but we still in this b****")

Detroit (16.8%)
St. Louis (16.7%)
Memphis (14.1%)
New Orleans (15.3%)

Tier 3 ("Gotta worse rep than we deserve")

Bay Area (24.1%)
Boston (20.9%)

Tier 4 ("Speak softly and carry a big stick")

Raleigh (26.1%)
Charlotte (27.1%)
Denver (25.6%)
Nashville (23.4%)

Tier 5 ("You could do worse")

Greensboro (20.6%)
Columbia (20.7%)
Columbus (19.8%)
Birmingham (18.5%)
Baton Rouge (18.4%)
Richmond (17.4%)

Tier 6 ("We definitely need to get our kids in Jack & Jill")

Pittsburgh (15.9%)
Cincinnati (15.8%)
Cleveland (14.1%)

Tier 6c ("I'm dying to move to Chicago but my company won't transfer me")

Milwaukee (12.3%)
Flint (12.3%)
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Old 05-29-2015, 12:00 PM
 
56,595 posts, read 80,890,793 times
Reputation: 12505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I don't think it's that people don't know about Milwaukee, but it's just not among the cities talked about very often when it comes to Black culture or a relocation destination for Blacks--or anyone else for that matter. There's a generally recognized hierarchy in place here and there are logical reasons why a city like Milwaukee is where it is in that hierarchy. That doesn't make it a bad city and there are Blacks doing well there, but it's generally about the numbers across a couple of different categories at this point.
I get this, but the original post was open to all parts of the country and there may be people that may not realize that Milwaukee has a high Black city and metro percentage/population in relative terms. That was it.... We can debate if it is an area with a "large" Black population, but in terms of strict information, it is hard to deny its numbers in comparison to other areas.
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Old 05-29-2015, 12:08 PM
 
56,595 posts, read 80,890,793 times
Reputation: 12505
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Basically. There are about 40 different metros that could go ahead of Milwaukee as a "Black" city just as there are about 40 metros (probably fewer actually) that could go ahead of Atlanta as an "Italian" city. Both are pretty far down the pecking order when it comes to those populations.
Notoriety, for lack of a better word and population demographics are two different things. That is all I'm saying. Again, Milwaukee and Chicago are similar in city and metro Black percentages, but the difference is the notoriety.

Also, given the list you posted, what about smaller areas with relatively high Black educational attainment like Lansing? Before you answer that, consider say a city/area like Denver, which has a similar percentage, but is more isolated versus Lansing, which is within an hour or so from Detroit.

Perhaps Columbus could be up there as well.

I'm also curious about impact, as that may be something to consider as well.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 05-29-2015 at 12:16 PM..
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Old 05-29-2015, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Notoriety, for lack of a better word and population demographics are two different things. That is all I'm saying. Again, Milwaukee and Chicago are similar in city and metro Black percentages, but the difference is the notoriety.
And its notoriety is undoubtedly a derivative of its massive size. It doesn't matter that Atlanta and Columbia, SC have the same Black percentage. Atlanta has more notoriety because its Black population is about seven times the size of Columbia's. Los Angeles has a Black percentage below the national average and has perhaps more notoriety than anywhere outside of NYC. When it comes to how visible Black populations are on a nationwide basis, size definitely matters. If percentages mattered more, then we'd hear much more about Jackson than we do the Bay Area.

Nobody's really arguing about the demographics. They are what they are and they can be quickly ascertained by looking at Wiki. The crux of my argument is that Milwaukee's Black population is not large enough to garner the national spotlight. Cities with larger Black populations, like Los Angeles, don't face this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Also, given the list you posted, what about smaller areas with relatively high Black educational attainment like Lansing? Before you answer that, consider say a city/area like Denver, which has a similar percentage, but is more isolated versus Lansing, which is within an hour or so from Detroit.
I'm not sure where I'd put it. Maybe something like a 6b (Milwaukee was supposed to be 6b not 6c). There are more educated Black people there but the numbers are miniscule. It's hard to rank but it would definitely be lower than most of the Southern metros that have relatively high levels of attainment but boast much larger numbers.
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Old 05-29-2015, 12:35 PM
 
29,932 posts, read 27,365,450 times
Reputation: 18458
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I get this, but the original post was open to all parts of the country and there may be people that may not realize that Milwaukee has a high Black city and metro percentage/population in relative terms. That was it.... We can debate if it is an area with a "large" Black population, but in terms of strict information, it is hard to deny its numbers in comparison to other areas.
Well the premise of the discussion centers on regions, and the focus on Milwaukee in particular began because someone disputed MN and WI being grouped together here and argued that WI should have been grouped with IL because of Milwaukee's connection to Chicago, the cities with the largest Black populations in their respective states. I'd agree with that, but it doesn't really change anything in terms of the hierarchy of individual cities/metros and why Milwaukee doesn't get as much buzz.
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