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Old 06-18-2019, 09:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
I’d say northern cities like BMORE PHILLY NYC BOS no one talks about metro areas. People talk very clearly about city and suburbs or city and surrounding cities. Most of the country cares much more about metro area and includes it in talking about their city because their suburbs are built more similarly to the city than say Philly BMORE or Boston. NYC will say tristate but that just for promotion of products or parties. people don’t think or claim Jersey City is NYC seven though it feels like it. People know and respect the border, the history and the differences. Same with Cambridge and Boston. It’s unreasonable to apply the standards of southern and western cities on established legacy cities that simply DONT operate that way. It’s not the Bay, it’s not Atlanta Or Chicago or whatever not every metro and its residents act or honk the same and that ought to be respected not washed over for simplicity’s sake.
Boston seems to be just a bit different than the others due to its weird boundaries and the fact that it doesn't have suburbs in other states. There doesn't seem to be much of an issue with people including places like Cambridge and Brookline when they talk about Boston. They seem to function more like neighborhoods of Boston and have a similar built form, so there appears to be less of an issue with that compared to other legacy cities. I could be wrong, but that's my impression. And that would only apply to those very close-in "suburbs" and not places like Quincy and Malden.

But at the least, even when talking about legacy cities, people in general will associate suburban amenities with the primary city itself, such as Boston area universities not within Boston proper, KOP mall, Reagan airport, etc.

Last edited by Mutiny77; 06-18-2019 at 09:53 AM..
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Tupelo, Ms
1,030 posts, read 625,717 times
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The rap scene in different parts of the Sipp.

Jackson :
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http://youtu.be/OJkz8tKO1S4

http://youtu.be/biPxbxEkSRE

http://youtu.be/vnWfrckYLlk

Gulfport:

http://youtu.be/tiTDfdw_WCE

http://youtu.be/DoH-ZcH0a8Q

Last edited by Sharif662; 06-18-2019 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:14 AM
 
928 posts, read 393,466 times
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Good assessment overall - my main quibble is that I'd argue that grouping #2, #4, #5, #6, #9, and #11 are all more car-centric than the West. The West has several areas - including SF, Oakland, Seattle, among others - where public transit usage is higher and the black culture as far as I can tell is not as car-centric as in the South, Appalachia, the Midwest, Plains States, etc.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Boston
2,189 posts, read 1,293,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Boston seems to be just a bit different than the others due to its weird boundaries and the fact that it doesn't have suburbs in other states. There doesn't seem to be much of an issue with people including places like Cambridge and Brookline when they talk about Boston. They seem to function more like neighborhoods of Boston and have a similar built form, so there appears to be less of an issue with that compared to other legacy cities. I could be wrong, but that's my impression. And that would only apply to those very close-in "suburbs" and not places like Quincy and Malden.

But at the least, even when talking about legacy cities, people in general will associate suburban amenities with the primary city itself, such as Boston area universities not within Boston proper, KOP mall, Reagan airport, etc.
I totally disagree. Quincy broders Boston and is by definition a close in suburb although it is a city of 95k. Malden is about 1.5 miles from Boston and is considered an urban city/suburb.

Its a much bigger issue in Boston than other legacy. People who live in Boston and Cambridge do not liked to be linked together. Cambridge has different zoning a laws, different city government style, (Boston is Strong Mayor,Cambridge is City-manager/weak mayor and Brookline is town meeting) is more progressive, more wealthy and more integrated. it doesn't have the racial tension or history of Boston and has never went thru busing thud it has much better schools. Int he 70s and 80s many black Americans from Roxbury, Fenway and Mission Hill moved to Cambridge in search of better schools, less crime and a more welcoming racial environment. Brookline doesnt even have blacks or Latinos at all really and aligns itself more with wealthy western suburbs than the city-politically. Most of Brookline was developed specifically to keep Boston Irish and other immigrants OUT. It was to be and still is a "country suburb" for WASPS. It is free of big city corruption and has very few social services for low income folks.

Brookline and Cambridge do not serve as neighborhoods of Boston AT ALL. MA also doesn't have county governments. Even as (some) counties do exist for judicial reasons. Cambridge, Brookline, and Boston are all in different counties and have very different DA's. Cambridge is Middlesex county with a liberal DA. Boston is Suffolk County with a black progressive DA who has a non prosecute list 20+ offenses long and Brookline is Norfolk County which has a more mdoerate DA. I am 99% confident youll find many multitudes more ex-Bostonians in Malden than Brookline. Malden is much more urban, much much more diverse and housing costs are 1/3 of Brookline.

Both Cambridge and Brookline were offered to be a part of Boston and they decline dback in the day citing poverty and immigration. Cambridge and Brookline are much larger than Boston neighborhoods (except dorchester). Boston is currently suing its physical neighbor Quincy because it refuses to pay its share of construction for a bridge to transport addicts to an island in the harbor.

Boston can sue Somerville, Revere, Everett. These cities often DO sue each other (as happened 4/5 years ago with the new casino) and have very different ideologies and demographics. I once mentored a kid who thought he had to take a plane to get form Dorchester to Cambridge...Boston does not always have good relations with its neighbors.

Chelsea is a physical neighbor of Boston and when its schools were placed in state receivership, Bostons were not. To an outsider moving to Boston for strictly economic reasons they are all the same. But spend a few weeks in the area and you'll see the divides are much much greater than you would think. Baltimore might be a little less isolated than the other legacy cities because the line between Baltimore City and County is so arbitrary and imaginary often times city resident donuts know when they're in the county vs the city. But again governmentally and economically they are very different.

As for built form Cambridge has many more large modern apartment complexes and rowhomes than Boston. Its also much cleaner and three deckers are narrower. The southern half of Brookline are lavish and expansive 19th century mansions and country estates. Neither Cambridge nor brookline has the many many two family apartment homes Bostons residential areas due. Quincy also has a ton of huge modern apartment complexes that are rare in Boston. Malden is most like the built form of the majority of Boston.

In between the large economic, political, cultural, physical and county differences plus the competitive and at times antagonistic relationship between Boston and some surrounding cities I dont think they can be lumped in as "neighborhoods of Boston". Boston is pretty hard to figure out and requires a lot of time to to understand. You cant go to Cambridge, Somervile, brookline and Downtown Boston and think you've seen it all. You'll miss many of the regions largest cities, and its most diverse areas, and its most "Boston" areas.
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:23 PM
 
29,872 posts, read 27,324,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
I totally disagree. Quincy broders Boston and is by definition a close in suburb although it is a city of 95k. Malden is about 1.5 miles from Boston and is considered an urban city/suburb.

Its a much bigger issue in Boston than other legacy. People who live in Boston and Cambridge do not liked to be linked together. Cambridge has different zoning a laws, different city government style, (Boston is Strong Mayor,Cambridge is City-manager/weak mayor and Brookline is town meeting) is more progressive, more wealthy and more integrated. it doesn't have the racial tension or history of Boston and has never went thru busing thud it has much better schools. Int he 70s and 80s many black Americans from Roxbury, Fenway and Mission Hill moved to Cambridge in search of better schools, less crime and a more welcoming racial environment. Brookline doesnt even have blacks or Latinos at all really and aligns itself more with wealthy western suburbs than the city-politically. Most of Brookline was developed specifically to keep Boston Irish and other immigrants OUT. It was to be and still is a "country suburb" for WASPS. It is free of big city corruption and has very few social services for low income folks.

Brookline and Cambridge do not serve as neighborhoods of Boston AT ALL. MA also doesn't have county governments. Even as (some) counties do exist for judicial reasons. Cambridge, Brookline, and Boston are all in different counties and have very different DA's. Cambridge is Middlesex county with a liberal DA. Boston is Suffolk County with a black progressive DA who has a non prosecute list 20+ offenses long and Brookline is Norfolk County which has a more mdoerate DA. I am 99% confident youll find many multitudes more ex-Bostonians in Malden than Brookline. Malden is much more urban, much much more diverse and housing costs are 1/3 of Brookline.

Both Cambridge and Brookline were offered to be a part of Boston and they decline dback in the day citing poverty and immigration. Cambridge and Brookline are much larger than Boston neighborhoods (except dorchester). Boston is currently suing its physical neighbor Quincy because it refuses to pay its share of construction for a bridge to transport addicts to an island in the harbor.

Boston can sue Somerville, Revere, Everett. These cities often DO sue each other (as happened 4/5 years ago with the new casino) and have very different ideologies and demographics. I once mentored a kid who thought he had to take a plane to get form Dorchester to Cambridge...Boston does not always have good relations with its neighbors.

Chelsea is a physical neighbor of Boston and when its schools were placed in state receivership, Bostons were not. To an outsider moving to Boston for strictly economic reasons they are all the same. But spend a few weeks in the area and you'll see the divides are much much greater than you would think. Baltimore might be a little less isolated than the other legacy cities because the line between Baltimore City and County is so arbitrary and imaginary often times city resident donuts know when they're in the county vs the city. But again governmentally and economically they are very different.

As for built form Cambridge has many more large modern apartment complexes and rowhomes than Boston. Its also much cleaner and three deckers are narrower. The southern half of Brookline are lavish and expansive 19th century mansions and country estates. Neither Cambridge nor brookline has the many many two family apartment homes Bostons residential areas due. Quincy also has a ton of huge modern apartment complexes that are rare in Boston. Malden is most like the built form of the majority of Boston.

In between the large economic, political, cultural, physical and county differences plus the competitive and at times antagonistic relationship between Boston and some surrounding cities I dont think they can be lumped in as "neighborhoods of Boston". Boston is pretty hard to figure out and requires a lot of time to to understand. You cant go to Cambridge, Somervile, brookline and Downtown Boston and think you've seen it all. You'll miss many of the regions largest cities, and its most diverse areas, and its most "Boston" areas.
Thanks for that info. I know there are differences between Boston and the 'burbs but I didn't know to what extent. But when it comes to talking about the size of Boston, I've seen places like Cambridge and Brookline get lumped in and while those places may be different from Boston in several respect, geographically it seems logical to include places like that. And of course, as I said before, several of the Boston area universities are strongly associated with Boston itself. I don't see folks on here pitching a fit when people talk about Harvard, MIT, Tufts, etc. as belonging to Boston (and to be fair, Harvard does have a presence in Boston itself although the main campus is in Cambridge). Or even the Patriots for that matter, which play a little farther out.

But overall, I think the point is that with only a few exceptions like NYC, people do tend to think of metros when they think of cities--not the MSA though but something closer to the urbanized area where the bulk of the region's population and amenities are found. I'd say Boston falls into that category.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Boston
2,189 posts, read 1,293,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Thanks for that info. I know there are differences between Boston and the 'burbs but I didn't know to what extent. But when it comes to talking about the size of Boston, I've seen places like Cambridge and Brookline get lumped in and while those places may be different from Boston in several respect, geographically it seems logical to include places like that. And of course, as I said before, several of the Boston area universities are strongly associated with Boston itself. I don't see folks on here pitching a fit when people talk about Harvard, MIT, Tufts, etc. as belonging to Boston (and to be fair, Harvard does have a presence in Boston itself although the main campus is in Cambridge). Or even the Patriots for that matter, which play a little farther out.

But overall, I think the point is that with only a few exceptions like NYC, people do tend to think of metros when they think of cities--not the MSA though but something closer to the urbanized area where the bulk of the region's population and amenities are found. I'd say Boston falls into that category.
I think this is because NYC is a colection of islands and North Jersey and LI have very distinct identities they cherish. So do Westchester and CT
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,247 posts, read 26,214,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
I think this is because NYC is a colection of islands and North Jersey and LI have very distinct identities they cherish. So do Westchester and CT
I don't think it's that at all. I think it's because NYC alone accounts for 65% of the population of the metro counties that are in NY state. No other major city comes close to having a core city that dominates its region to that extent.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:54 AM
 
29,872 posts, read 27,324,185 times
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't think it's that at all. I think it's because NYC alone accounts for 65% of the population of the metro counties that are in NY state. No other major city comes close to having a core city that dominates its region to that extent.
I think it's both. The NJ and CT suburbs definitely have pretty strong identities all their own.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I think it's both. The NJ and CT suburbs definitely have pretty strong identities all their own.
You mean identities that are actually recognized by people outside of the region? Perhaps.

But then I wonder if people think of the entire Delaware Valley when they hear "Philadelphia." Or do SJ and Delaware have a strong enough identity where people only think of Philly city proper?

For C-D purposes, I think people on here only think of "NYC" unless otherwise specified because of its sheer size, and not so much because they feel places like Jersey and Connecticut or so different as to not be lumped together with the city.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:51 PM
 
29,872 posts, read 27,324,185 times
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You mean identities that are actually recognized by people outside of the region? Perhaps.

But then I wonder if people think of the entire Delaware Valley when they hear "Philadelphia." Or do SJ and Delaware have a strong enough identity where people only think of Philly city proper?

For C-D purposes, I think people on here only think of "NYC" unless otherwise specified because of its sheer size, and not so much because they feel places like Jersey and Connecticut or so different as to not be lumped together with the city.
I think people only think of Philly proper when they hear "Philly" but I think it's more so due to the size and strength of Philly alone. A lot of people aren't even aware that SJ and Delaware are even part of the Philly region.
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