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Old 05-28-2015, 10:29 AM
 
92,035 posts, read 122,173,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I didn't say anything about a "large Black presence." Jackson has a "large Black presence." Columbia has a "large Black presence." But those cities don't have particularly large Black populations in an absolute sense. In other words, they don't have the type of numbers to attract attention the way cities like St. Louis or Memphis do (largely owing to the fact they aren't major cities).

Los Angeles, on the other hand, has a low Black percentage, but has around 1 million Black people living in the region. Milwaukee, Tuscaloosa, and Augusta may all have higher Black percentages, but which Black community do people "hear about." The answer is clearly Los Angeles since it is one of the largest Black communities in the country.



We are viewing this in different ways. You are basically saying that a city with a high Black percentage is "on the radar." I don't agree with that. I think the only Black communities we "hear about" are the ones with large Black populations. This would include NYC, LA, Chicago, Detroit, DC, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Miami, etc. The exceptions are metros with smaller but highly-educated Black populations like Raleigh. Coincidentally, these are the metros that hog nearly all the discussion in any thread that touches on this topic.

Milwaukee is about as far off the radar as you can get. I suppose it's not Spokane but it's less notable than Jackson, which is pretty far down in my book. You will rarely see those two metros mentioned along the likes of Dallas or Raleigh as far as Black folks are concerned.
This is more a matter of who these cities may or may not be "on the radar". It seems apparent that those 2 areas are on the radar of some Black people given their demographics and I think the point of the thread is to bring information about such areas, instead of the same 20 metros that Blacks supposedly only care about.
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,887 posts, read 34,388,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
No, just no and keep in mind that we are talking about C-D here.

I would think a list of say the top 50, 75 or 100 metros would be a simpler way to look at the topic.
If that's the case, then you might as well say that the Top 100 ranked metros for Black population are the ones we "hear about." 100 is such a large number that it's almost meaningless. That's like saying the Top 100 metros for Italians, which could probably include cities like Lincoln, Nebraska, which isn't known for its Italian population. A more reasonable cutoff would be the Top 15 or maybe 20, maybe even 25. 50 and above is excessive, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Again, Milwaukee is essentially Chicago in terms of city and metro Black percentages. So, you may be underestimating if people know about its Black community.
And Jackson is essentially Atlanta in terms of city and metro percentages. That doesn't mean it enjoys a particularly high profile in the Black community.

Most people don't scrub Census data and look for any city in America that has a Black percentage higher than 20%. Most of what we hear about in the Black community comes through Black-centric media. Other than people saying "Yeah, I got family down in Mississippi," there is no real focus on Jackson or anything that goes on there notwithstanding its high Black percentage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Again, Memphis is probably the Blackest top 100 metro in the country and by your "criteria", if Milwaukee doesn't have a large Black population, then Chicago doesn't. That wouldn't make any sense though.
Huh? You do understand the difference between percentages and absolutes, right? Memphis not only has a high percentage of Blacks, but it also has a large raw number (12th largest in the nation behind Baltimore). Milwaukee currently ranks 32nd or 33rd. How many times have we heard people on here say "the Bay Area has no Black people" or "Boston has no Black people"? Yet those metros have much larger Black populations than Milwaukee (people don't really say this about L.A. though its % isn't much higher). So no, I don't consider Milwaukee's Black population to be large, but then that all depends on your baseline. If your baseline is Topeka, KS, then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
As for the Ithaca comment, I actually not too far away and have an interest in all Black communities, regardless of size. If you stepped outside of the handful of metros that are spoon fed to you, you may actually recognize some other Black communities and people doing good things in many locations.
Why make this type of condescending assumption? "Well, I, unlike you BajanYankee, have an interest in things scholarly and academic, not just TMZ, BET and the Real Houswives of Atlanta." You don't know anything about me and don't have license to make such an assumption.

I can see the difference between a city that has a high profile in the Black community and a city that doesn't. Clearly, not every city with a high Black percentage enjoys a high profile. That's basically the same as saying that all cities with a high Black percentage enjoy a high profile or high visibility in "Black America." I don't agree with that. There's the very academic matter of identifying all metros in the U.S. with a "significant" Black concentration and then there's the far less academic matter of identifying the ones that are actually visible.
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,887 posts, read 34,388,425 times
Reputation: 14971
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
This is more a matter of who these cities may or may not be "on the radar". It seems apparent that those 2 areas are on the radar of some Black people given their demographics and I think the point of the thread is to bring information about such areas, instead of the same 20 metros that Blacks supposedly only care about.
Well, I was arguing a very specific point, which was why "we don't hear about" Milwaukee's Black community. And I said that we don't "hear about" it much because it is not particularly large or upwardly mobile. That was my response to cheese plate who had stated that we don't "hear about" Milwaukee's Black population because it's "enmeshed with Chicago's." Its "enmeshment" with Chicago may be a possible factor but two more obvious factors come to mind.
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Calera, AL
1,485 posts, read 2,227,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
And Jackson is essentially Atlanta in terms of city and metro percentages. That doesn't mean it enjoys a particularly high profile in the Black community.
That's not exactly a fair comparison. Jackson is 1/10th Atlanta's size, it's a much poorer city and there's far fewer viable opportunities for education, employment, entertainment, etc. Atlanta has been invested in extremely heavily to make it attractive for professional African-Americans, or those seeking a quality education (it's home to plenty of quality schools, both HBCU's and non-HBCU's) as can be evidenced by its several affluent majority black neighborhoods and suburbs.
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:14 AM
 
92,035 posts, read 122,173,887 times
Reputation: 18141
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
If that's the case, then you might as well say that the Top 100 ranked metros for Black population are the ones we "hear about." 100 is such a large number that it's almost meaningless. That's like saying the Top 100 metros for Italians, which could probably include cities like Lincoln, Nebraska, which isn't known for its Italian population. A more reasonable cutoff would be the Top 15 or maybe 20, maybe even 25. 50 and above is excessive, imo.



And Jackson is essentially Atlanta in terms of city and metro percentages. That doesn't mean it enjoys a particularly high profile in the Black community.

Most people don't scrub Census data and look for any city in America that has a Black percentage higher than 20%. Most of what we hear about in the Black community comes through Black-centric media. Other than people saying "Yeah, I got family down in Mississippi," there is no real focus on Jackson or anything that goes on there notwithstanding its high Black percentage.



Huh? You do understand the difference between percentages and absolutes, right? Memphis not only has a high percentage of Blacks, but it also has a large raw number (12th largest in the nation behind Baltimore). Milwaukee currently ranks 32nd or 33rd. How many times have we heard people on here say "the Bay Area has no Black people" or "Boston has no Black people"? Yet those metros have much larger Black populations than Milwaukee (people don't really say this about L.A. though its % isn't much higher). So no, I don't consider Milwaukee's Black population to be large, but then that all depends on your baseline. If your baseline is Topeka, KS, then I'd be inclined to agree with you.



Why make this type of condescending assumption? "Well, I, unlike you BajanYankee, have an interest in things scholarly and academic, not just TMZ, BET and the Real Houswives of Atlanta." You don't know anything about me and don't have license to make such an assumption.

I can see the difference between a city that has a high profile in the Black community and a city that doesn't. Clearly, not every city with a high Black percentage enjoys a high profile. That's basically the same as saying that all cities with a high Black percentage enjoy a high profile or high visibility in "Black America." I don't agree with that. There's the very academic matter of identifying all metros in the U.S. with a "significant" Black concentration and then there's the far less academic matter of identifying the ones that are actually visible.
You do realize that there are 381 metro areas in the US and you mentioned areas like Erie and Scranton. Really? I guess the NY Times was crazy for making this list then: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...reas.html?_r=0

Also, if the Milwaukee area is 32nd or 33rd in Black population out of 381 metro areas, then it does have a relatively high Black population in terms of percentage and numbers. So, you actually proved my point. It is the 39th biggest metro in the country, which is on par with Nashville, Hampton Roads/Tidewater and Jacksonville in that regard.

This thread isn't about profile, but straight information. I could care less about profile. Here is some metro information: BlackDemographics.com | Black City Population

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 05-28-2015 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,887 posts, read 34,388,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fezzador View Post
That's not exactly a fair comparison. Jackson is 1/10th Atlanta's size, it's a much poorer city and there's far fewer viable opportunities for education, employment, entertainment, etc. Atlanta has been invested in extremely heavily to make it attractive for professional African-Americans, or those seeking a quality education (it's home to plenty of quality schools, both HBCU's and non-HBCU's) as can be evidenced by its several affluent majority black neighborhoods and suburbs.
Were you even following the conversation? I wasn't comparing Atlanta and Jackson.

The poster I replied to said that Milwaukee is essentially Chicago in terms of its Black percentage (metro and city). That is true. However, that doesn't mean that Milwaukee's Black population has a high level of nationwide visibility simply because its racial proportions are similar to Chicago's. I used Jackson as an example; it has proportions that are similar to Atlanta, but its Black community doesn't have much visibility or notoriety.

In some cases, you may even have a Black population that's smaller (in absolute and percentage terms) that has a higher profile. I would say you hear more about LA's Black population than you do Philly's even though Philly's is larger.
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:17 AM
 
37,795 posts, read 41,491,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I would too...if you put Milwaukee, Columbia, Jackson and Spokane in front of me and told me I couldn't live anywhere else. But to say that it has even a modestly high profile in Black America is a stretch. It's about on par with Augusta, which doesn't have a high profile in Black America. If we are talking about the cities that people "hear about," which is what cheese plate said, then we are clearly talking about Atlanta, DC and NYC. Those cities are followed by Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Philadelphia. Baltimore, Detroit and St. Louis would likely be a step down. Then you have smaller metros--mostly in the South--like Raleigh and Nashville with vibrant Black middle classes. Then you might get around to cities like Boston or the SF Bay Area that aren't known as swell places for Blacks but have large Black populations relative to everywhere else.

Birmingham, Jackson or Columbia would fall somewhere after all of these cities (except for maybe retirees). Milwaukee would rank behind these cities since it has a smaller Black population than all of them and fewer professional Blacks than all of them.
I'd agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
And, for the millionth time - you don't "hear about" Milwaukee blacks because it's considered part-and-parcel with Chicago. Oprah grew up in Milwaukee, and settled in Chicago. Bands like The Esquires ("Get on Up") moved to Chicago before taking off nationally. It's a step ladder, often, to the bigger cultural/media center, one of (if not THE) most important ones in the history of the country, a little over an hour away. You have zero knowledge of the area or what it offers, yet you continue pushing tangential knucklehead stats and "feelings" even though you agreed with my (and ckh, and everyone else's) initial point that started the whole tangent. Milwaukee has plenty in terms of black history and identity, but in general it's tied together with Chicago's. Because they're close. And Chicago is so large. Get it?
That's interesting; Baltimore and DC still have separate identities and histories as far as their Black populations go, as do Philly and NY and both pairs of cities are closer than or as close as Milwaukee and Chicago. I know a couple people who are either from Milwaukee or have lived there, and they speak of the city in very different terms than they do Chicago. While they are geographically close, they are still seen as separate cities is what I gathered.
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,887 posts, read 34,388,425 times
Reputation: 14971
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
You do realize that there are 381 metro areas in the US and you mentioned areas like Erie and Scranton. Really? I guess the NY Times was crazy for making this list then: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...reas.html?_r=0

Also, if the Milwaukee area is 32nd or 33rd in Black population out of 381 metro areas, then it does have a relatively high Black population in terms of percentage and numbers. So, you actually proved my point.

This thread isn't about profile, but straight information.
Okay, dude, I give up. If you think Milwaukee has a "large" Black population, then I don't know what to tell you. Considering that we have metros like Carson City, NV with a population of 55,000, your extremely hypertechnical point is duly noted. By this logic, I guess we could also say that Des Moine has a "large" Italian population all things considering. Nearly any metro will have a large anything when compared to the likes of Florence, SC and Burlington, VT.

I only listed Erie and Scranton because they came to mind as being places that were particularly horrid for professional Blacks. It's like some of you guys expect me to list all of the metros in the United States while you sit back and critcize me for not numbering each one. Give me a break.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 05-28-2015 at 11:37 AM..
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,887 posts, read 34,388,425 times
Reputation: 14971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
That's interesting; Baltimore and DC still have separate identities and histories as far as their Black populations go, as do Philly and NY and both pairs of cities are closer than or as close as Milwaukee and Chicago. I know a couple people who are either from Milwaukee or have lived there, and they speak of the city in very different terms than they do Chicago. While they are geographically close, they are still seen as separate cities is what I gathered.
Yeah, I don't think of Chicago and Milwaukee as having this Philadelphia-Camden or New York-Newark type of relationship. Camden and Newark are two cities that have been completely absorbed into the cultural ethos of their considerably larger neighbors. They have their own identities in a way, but for the most part, they are subordinate to Philadelphia and New York, respectively.

Milwaukee is way different. It has its own MSA and its own identity. The first thing that comes to mind for most people is probably its brewing history (Laverne & Shirley). It isn't subordinate to Chicago in any material way.

And even Baltimore and DC, as you noted, are closer than Chicago and Milwaukee, yet retain very distinct identities.

If there's one city I would say is "part and parcel with Chicago," I'd say Gary. Or maybe Joliet.
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:41 AM
 
92,035 posts, read 122,173,887 times
Reputation: 18141
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Okay, dude, I give up. If you think Milwaukee has a "large" Black population, then I don't know what to tell you. Considering that we have metros like Carson City, NV with a population of 55,000, your extremely hypertechnical point is duly noted. By this logic, I guess we could also say that Des Moine has a "large" Italian population all things consdering. Nearly any metro will have a large anything when compared to the likes of Florence, SC and Burlington, VT.

I only listed Erie and Scranton because they came to mind as being places that were particularly horrid for professional Blacks. It's like some of you guys expect me to list all of the metros in the United States while you sit back and critcize me for not numbering each one. Give me a break.
Not even close to being a similar comparison at all. Again, the center city is 40% Black, the metro is 17% Black and it has the 30th biggest Black metro population in the country in terms of numbers and growing, out of 381 metros. I guess there is much more they need to do in order to be considered as having a large Black population.

I wasn't criticizing, but was more curious about the list and its criteria. It isn't that serious. Dang.....
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