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Old 06-01-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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I just find it funny how the West somehow leapfrogs from Nevada over Utah to the whole state of Colorado at the same latitude. OK. As to Wyoming, apparently the state welcome sign disagrees with you......


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Old 06-01-2015, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, Panther Carolina via ATL
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You never step foot in Ohio, let alone Columbus if you think Columbus should be part of the Greater south.
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Old 06-01-2015, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas_Cabbie View Post
So how is Utah not in the West region?

Iconic, wild landscape
Slow-paced lifestyles
Very few cities... State is dominated by open expanses and small towns.
Home to a ridiculous amount of western movies.

Just....... No.
I guess what I'm saying is it's not part of the "New West" and still has a very Anglo-Germanic feel to it like the upper Midwest states. The "New West" is defined by transplants from other places and Hispanic culture and I don't feel like that describes Utah, most of Idaho, Montana or Wyoming very well.
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Old 06-01-2015, 04:54 PM
 
Location: 406
1,423 posts, read 1,543,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less View Post
I guess what I'm saying is it's not part of the "New West" and still has a very Anglo-Germanic feel to it like the upper Midwest states. The "New West" is defined by transplants from other places and Hispanic culture and I don't feel like that describes Utah, most of Idaho, Montana or Wyoming very well.
Idaho, Montana and Wyoming are Western states and cannot be credibly considered anything different in a cultural or historical sense, with or without the Hispanic factor. If anything, the Interior Western states of the Northern Rockies/Greater Northwest (i.e. Montana and Wyoming) are more adequately described as "Old West". Ask a North Dakotan or a South Dakotan--or a Minnestotan, a Wisconsonite or a Michigander, for that matter--about any sort of kinship, cross-identification or strong general familiarity with Montana and its neighboring states of Idaho and Wyoming, and I'm almost positive you wouldn't receive an answer to reinforce your assumptions.

If any part of Utah, despite its heavily LDS and marginally Protestant religious demographics, can be at all lumped in with the "New West", then certainly the whole of Idaho can, and certainly its traditional (and far less statistically religious) "sister states" of MT and WY can as well.

Here's some food for thought on the subject of MT: an estimated 46% of its 1 million residents aren't native to the state according to a recent New York Times migration study, and as recently as 2012 I believe, the state's DMV has shown that MT's transplants are arriving in highest numbers from about a half-dozen counties along the West Coast from WA to SoCal. Idaho and Montana (I would assume Wyoming too, but to maybe a lesser extent) have very heavy transplant populations from "New" Western States.

Anyway, bottom line: Don't compare my state to North Dakota.
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Old 06-01-2015, 04:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Montguy View Post
Idaho, Montana and Wyoming are Western states and cannot be credibly considered anything different in a cultural or historical sense, with or without the Hispanic factor. If anything, the Interior Western states of the Northern Rockies/Greater Northwest (i.e. Montana and Wyoming) are more adequately described as "Old West". Ask a North Dakotan or a South Dakotan--or a Minnestotan, a Wisconsonite or a Michigander, for that matter--about any sort of kinship, cross-identification or strong general familiarity with Montana and its neighboring states of Idaho and Wyoming, and I'm almost positive you wouldn't receive an answer to reinforce your assumptions.

If any part of Utah, despite its heavily LDS and marginally Protestant religious demographics, can be at all lumped in with the "New West", then certainly the whole of Idaho can, and certainly its traditional (and far less statistically religious) "sister states" of MT and WY can as well.

Here's some food for thought on the subject of MT: an estimated 46% of its 1 million residents aren't native to the state according to a recent New York Times migration study, and as recently as 2012 I believe, the state's DMV has shown that MT's transplants are arriving in highest numbers from about a half-dozen counties along the West Coast from WA to SoCal. Idaho and Montana (I would assume Wyoming too, but to maybe a lesser extent) have very heavy transplant populations from "New" Western States.

Anyway, bottom line: Don't compare my state to North Dakota.
Do you feel more kinship with Southern California and Arizona than North Dakota? I think Montana feels distinctly "northern", not "Western" or "Midwestern"; the only similarity to hot-weather Hispanic-heavy Western states is the lower level of religiosity. Idaho and Utah are more debatable.

I'm pretty surprised nearly half of Montana's residents weren't born in the state though! I think the culture of the Mountain West is changing to become more like the West Coast but I don't think Montana is "there" yet. Colorado on the other hand definitely is.
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Old 06-01-2015, 05:22 PM
 
Location: 406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less View Post
Do you feel more kinship with Southern California and Arizona than North Dakota? I think Montana feels distinctly "northern", not "Western" or "Midwestern"; the only similarity to hot-weather Hispanic-heavy Western states is the lower level of religiosity. Idaho and Utah are more debatable.
I wouldn't say I feel kinship toward Southern California or Arizona per se (nothing against them, of course), but I would definitely say I feel a greater sense of "kinship" (i.e. familiarity and comfort) toward Western states like CO, WY, ID, WA and OR than I do toward North Dakota.

But then again, if I were a Montanan of the far-Eastern plains (where roughly 15% of the state's already small population even lives), then it's possible I could feel differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less View Post
I'm pretty surprised nearly half of Montana's residents weren't born in the state though! I think the culture of the Mountain West is changing to become more like the West Coast but I don't think Montana is "there" yet. Colorado on the other hand definitely is.
Seriously, family members included, I don't think it's a stretch to say that 75% of the people I know on any personal level in Montana aren't from here. That's just my own rough estimate.

I would have to agree about Colorado. The changes that in-migration can foment in a state is probably more pronounced there than it is anywhere else, even WA and OR. But yes, fundamentally, Montana still has some growing up to do.
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Old 06-01-2015, 05:22 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,223 posts, read 17,969,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less View Post
This is a bit of a different map, based mostly on culture and the overall feel and ancestry/history of a place, and its demographic and social trends:



Any thoughts?
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Old 06-01-2015, 06:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montguy View Post
I wouldn't say I feel kinship toward Southern California or Arizona per se (nothing against them, of course), but I would definitely say I feel a greater sense of "kinship" (i.e. familiarity and comfort) toward Western states like CO, WY, ID, WA and OR than I do toward North Dakota.

But then again, if I were a Montanan of the far-Eastern plains (where roughly 15% of the state's already small population even lives), then it's possible I could feel differently.
What about Great Falls and Billings? I know Great Falls is technically in the western half of the state, but socioculturally, economically and climatically I think it's much more similar to Bismarck than to say, Corvallis. I lived there for 3 years and it felt pretty Midwestern to me, granted Great Falls is pretty unique and is actually quite different from other places in Montana.
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Old 06-01-2015, 06:21 PM
 
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I still don't think Montana and northern Idaho have more in common with Arizona and New Mexico than they do with states like North Dakota and Minnesota. You could make a case for them being more like OR and WA yes.
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Old 06-01-2015, 07:39 PM
 
82 posts, read 75,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less View Post
I still don't think Montana and northern Idaho have more in common with Arizona and New Mexico than they do with states like North Dakota and Minnesota. You could make a case for them being more like OR and WA yes.
I disagree. Maybe you need more than 4 regions, but ID is vastly more like OR and WA than MN. Full stop. NID is also the least Midwest part of the state in my view. I will grant E MT / W ND as a transition zone from West to Midwest, but I don't know that area too well.
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