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Old 06-22-2015, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Denver, then. There are some such areas much closer than 20-30 miles from the city.

The "Bay Area" has always seemed like wall to wall people to me.
Denver isn't exactly "compact" and it has tons of sprawl. The OP is "Cities that aren't surrounded by tons of suburban sprawl," and Denver just doesn't qualify here. You can "be in nature" 30 miles out of most metros, it's not really unusual at all. What would be unusual is a significant-sized US city that wasn't surrounded by sprawl, like you can find in Europe and other places around the globe.
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Old 06-22-2015, 01:10 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
Denver isn't exactly "compact" and it has tons of sprawl. The OP is "Cities that aren't surrounded by tons of suburban sprawl," and Denver just doesn't qualify here. You can "be in nature" 30 miles out of most metros, it's not really unusual at all.
That was the OP's criteria, it's way too broad but that's his choice. Just about every metro with less than 4 million people would probably fit. The Bay Area fits even though it's larger, but that's partly because of its irregular shape. Its urban area is denser than most American metros, which helps.
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Old 06-22-2015, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
Denver isn't exactly "compact" and it has tons of sprawl. The OP is "Cities that aren't surrounded by tons of suburban sprawl," and Denver just doesn't qualify here. You can "be in nature" 30 miles out of most metros, it's not really unusual at all. What would be unusual is a significant-sized US city that wasn't surrounded by sprawl, like you can find in Europe and other places around the globe.
When I objected to SF on that basis, after all, a city of 700K in a CSA of almost 9 million obviously has lots of suburbia, I was "corrected". Denver is the same. You could make a circle with the state capitol building as the center with a 20 mile radius, and you would be in open land just about everywhere! Going west, you'd be in the foothills of the Rockies. Going east, the farmlands of the eastern plains. North, farmland. South, open land till you get to Colorado Springs.
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Old 06-22-2015, 01:58 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
When I objected to SF on that basis, after all, a city of 700K in a CSA of almost 9 million obviously has lots of suburbia, I was "corrected". Denver is the same. You could make a circle with the state capitol building as the center with a 20 mile radius, and you would be in open land just about everywhere! Going west, you'd be in the foothills of the Rockies. Going east, the farmlands of the eastern plains. North, farmland. South, open land till you get to Colorado Springs.
To niptick, the CSA counts some places far from the Bay itself with lots of undeveloped land in between. The Bay Area (including Livermore/Walnut Creek/Concord area) is 5.6 million people in 1,013 square miles. The CSA includes parts of the Central Valley. Adding up the San Francisco and San Jose MSAs give only 6.5 million.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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^^Still almost 9 in 10 living in the burbs. That's way more than Denver. (600K in city, 2.5 mil MSA, with yeah, some very rural/open land in several counties, e.g. Adams [farmland to the east], Arapahoe [ditto], Boulder [foothills/mountain to the west], Douglas [foothills, open range south and west of Castle Rock], Jefferson [foothills/mountain to the west]). That's roughly 3 in 4 in the burbs. Since the census bureau decided to include whole rather than partial counties, there's a lot more open land in the MSA.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 06-22-2015 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:13 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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I don't think whether in or outside of the city limits has much if anything to do with sprawl; just density and development. If you're going % of land in the MSA counties that are developed, I'm not sure which would be ahead. For the Bay Area:

Tuesday's report noted that of the 4.4 million acres in the nine counties around the Bay Area, 1.1 million are in parks and open space preserves. Another 2.2 million are protected through zoning for farms, hillsides and rural development. That leaves 788,000 acres developed in urban areas and 322,000 acres of open land at risk of development over the next 30 years, with a quarter of that at risk in the next 10 years.

Bay Area open space: 75 percent is being protected, but 300,000 acres are still at risk - San Jose Mercury News
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Auburn, New York
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Of all big cities, I'd have to go with Pittsburgh. I was driving into the city on 279, just six miles from downtown Pittsburgh, and I was still surrounded by forest.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I don't think whether in or outside of the city limits has much if anything to do with sprawl; just density and development. If you're going % of land in the MSA counties that are developed, I'm not sure which would be ahead. For the Bay Area:

Tuesday's report noted that of the 4.4 million acres in the nine counties around the Bay Area, 1.1 million are in parks and open space preserves. Another 2.2 million are protected through zoning for farms, hillsides and rural development. That leaves 788,000 acres developed in urban areas and 322,000 acres of open land at risk of development over the next 30 years, with a quarter of that at risk in the next 10 years.

Bay Area open space: 75 percent is being protected, but 300,000 acres are still at risk - San Jose Mercury News
I'm going with suburbs. In SF, about 5 million in the MSA are living in the burbs. That's a lot of suburban area. In Denver, it's about 2 million living in the burbs, still a lot, but only 20% of SF's number. I was just pointing out that there is much area in the Denver MSA that is not urban or suburban in use.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:21 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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I have no idea what that tells us about sprawl, or how far you'd have to get out of the city to be in an undeveloped area.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
When I objected to SF on that basis, after all, a city of 700K in a CSA of almost 9 million obviously has lots of suburbia, I was "corrected". Denver is the same. You could make a circle with the state capitol building as the center with a 20 mile radius, and you would be in open land just about everywhere! Going west, you'd be in the foothills of the Rockies. Going east, the farmlands of the eastern plains. North, farmland. South, open land till you get to Colorado Springs.
Right, neither Denver (not very dense and surrounded by sprawl) nor the Bay Area (San Fran and other areas are compact, but surrounded by sprawl) qualify here, so let's look elsewhere!

The OP is quite specific about sprawl - it's right there in the title. "Being in nature in 30 minutes" or whatever is simply a fairly insignificant corollary, considering it's more common than not, while an American city with little sprawl that goes from city to nature is very much a rarity.
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