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Old 07-19-2015, 07:58 PM
 
82 posts, read 75,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NowInWI View Post
You are minimizing this....greatly. Do some research on the Internet, before you respond to this subject...it's a far greater concern than you seem to realize. Here's just one article:

As the River Runs Dry: The Southwest's water crisis
Good article. Nothing there is contradictory to what I posted. It seems very unlikely that water will remain cheap enough to support anywhere close to the level of irrigation currently practised, for ag or municipal. My question is whether that will lead to the kind of population shift implied in the post I originally quoted. Maybe. It's a question of what people decide to value.

"A region that uses two-thirds of its water outdoors, and mostly for agriculture, will have to find ways of sharing and boosting efficiency a shift that many experts believe will mean city dwellers paying to upgrade rural irrigation systems."
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,499,729 times
Reputation: 5783
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Places like Michigan and Ohio will have a bleak outlook in the near future IMO. Dependence on the unreliable auto industry, political issues and poor weather will keep them in the shape they are in UNTIL the water issue out west hits the fan. Michigan especially will likely have a massive reversal of fortune when that mess comes to a head. It may boom like it did back in the early twentieth century, but instead of folks moving from the south it will be from the west. Cities like Phoenix were never a good idea in an area that does not have the water to sustain them.
Ohio has the 7th largest state economy and grew at the 7th largest GDP total last year, faster than every Southern/Western state outside of the big 3 (California, Texas, Florida). It also currently has a lower unemployment rate the national average and a lower cost of living than the national average. Cincinnati is growing again, Dayton is on the verge. Downtown Cleveland is booming. Columbus is a top 13 fastest growing city in the nation. The state's population growth has risen from a low of 46th to 22nd last year. It has abundant water and tons of natural gas, which recently was estimated to be many times larger than originally thought. I guess it could be doing worse.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:24 AM
 
7,089 posts, read 4,104,027 times
Reputation: 6233
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I will admit that I have no idea how much water they need. However they already ration the water in places in the Southwest. There are plenty of reports about the future water shortage, current drought in California etc. If massive desalination plants were constructed maybe they would be ok. Supposedly that is expensive, too expensive. The land out there was never meant to support that much human population, yet the growth goes on. It does look like a self inflicted disaster in the making. It is a reasonable assumption that if this occurs the water world states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota would become some of the most popular places in America, inspite of what the nation currently thinks of those places. The cold weather will seem like a minor irritation compared to the water starved situation that may develop in the Southwest.
Phoenix uses less water now than it did in the 50s despite the population growth.

Agriculture accounts for over 2/3 of Arizona's water use. One of the largest aquifers in the US is situated right underneath Arizona.

California could simply stop farming Alfalfa and Almonds. The water issue is blown out of proportion.

I'm not saying it's great, but we're not gonna dry up and dehydrate to death.

California's real problems come from terrible leadership, expensive costs and out of control taxes. But California will ALWAYS be desirable hence the cost. It's wishful thinking that the Midwest would prosper again when the SW and California stop attracting all of their residents.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,400,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Frankly View Post
Agriculture and then residential landscaping are the big water consumers. People don't drink that much water. I don't know whether people in Phoenix will move to the Midwest in order to keep their lawns. Or whether people in Michigan will switch to canned vegetables rather than pay more for imported or greenhouse-grown lettuces. Maybe.
???

Here are the top food-producing states in the country: Total Agricultural Receipts Ranked by State from StuffAboutStates.com

Several of the top 9 border or are in the same exact region as Michigan:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Iowa
4. Nebraska
5. Minnesota
6. Illinois

7. Kansas
8. North Carolina
9. Wisconsin

Over half the top food-producing states in the country are in the "Michigan region." The Great Lakes region doesn't need Arizona's food (#29 on the list), but Arizona likely will need water, and quite possibly very soon, if the growth trend continues.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:30 AM
 
7,089 posts, read 4,104,027 times
Reputation: 6233
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
???

Here are the top food-producing states in the country: Total Agricultural Receipts Ranked by State from StuffAboutStates.com

Several of the top 9 border or are in the same exact region as Michigan:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Iowa
4. Nebraska
5. Minnesota
6. Illinois

7. Kansas
8. North Carolina
9. Wisconsin

Over half the top food-producing states in the country are in the "Michigan region." The Great Lakes region doesn't need Arizona's food (#29 on the list), but Arizona likely will need water, and quite possibly very soon, if the growth trend continues.
The point being made is that you can't grow a lot of crops in the winter in the midwest like you can in California/Arizona
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,400,713 times
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And? Winter crops are unnecessary, unlike water. The Midwest can produce enough food to keep going no problem. It's the #1 farming area of the country, by far, outside CA. Arizona cannot; further, their problem is water, something necessary for survival, unlike fresh winter greens.

Equating running out of water to having to can food in the winter is unequal; further, Arizona doesn't even produce much food, therefore the AZ/MI comparison was a poor one from the get-go.
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:54 PM
 
1,593 posts, read 835,022 times
Reputation: 1220
Lake Mead has had an historic drought. Does the Colorado river even make it to the Gulf of Mexico any more?
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Old 07-20-2015, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
1,379 posts, read 1,197,133 times
Reputation: 2546
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_General View Post
Lake Mead has had an historic drought. Does the Colorado river even make it to the Gulf of Mexico any more?
Of course it doesn't. What used to be an ecologically-rich delta is now a dried up, dusty wasteland devoid of life. Lots of waterfowl and other animal species dependent on the delta have completely disappeared.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/c...apt.1190.1.jpg
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Old 07-20-2015, 05:52 PM
 
448 posts, read 391,309 times
Reputation: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by geograph View Post
California, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Kansas, Nevada will be 3rd world in another 50 years. Huge population growth and dwindling water supplies will result in forced rationing of food and water. Infrastructure will collapse and the people that will control the American government will be liberals that will make the same mistakes the west coast made decades before.
It's ok though, parts of New Mexico are already 3rd World hahaha
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:47 PM
 
82 posts, read 75,918 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
And? Winter crops are unnecessary, unlike water. The Midwest can produce enough food to keep going no problem. It's the #1 farming area of the country, by far, outside CA. Arizona cannot; further, their problem is water, something necessary for survival, unlike fresh winter greens.

Equating running out of water to having to can food in the winter is unequal; further, Arizona doesn't even produce much food, therefore the AZ/MI comparison was a poor one from the get-go.
That wasn't my point; apologies if my post was cryptic. As water supplies tighten, individuals and society will have to make choices. In the Southwest, the choice may be whether to accept the desert landscape, pay more to water outdoor landscaping, or try to leave and move somewhere naturally greener. Throughout the country, there will be implications for access to winter vegetables. And people will have to prioritize, and make choices. Just as they will in AZ. The notion that the Southwest will literally "run out of water" such that the current population will move or die of thirst is not consistent with reality. Drinking water is a tiny fraction of total water use.

(Personally, I like canned vegetables. Green beans are the best! But I also like snow, which many people don't - judging by the population of PHX.)
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