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The "towns" surrounding Atlanta are incorporated cities. They are not towns. I know some southern states, like Virginia, have areas which are called town, but they don't have true sovereignty the way towns/townships do in northern states - the county still provides most local government functions.
Census-designated places in Pennsylvania are unincorporated because they straddle township/borough lines between one or more incorporated places. Well, technically speaking some Pennsylvania Townships are considered unincorporated by the census, but practically speaking they are incorporated. You have local township government which does essentially all the same things which city and borough government does, including fire, police, zoning, refuse collection, road repair, etc.
Oh good God...you're talking semantics. People call them towns no matter what they are officially called and they function as such. Towns, cities, villages, whatever you want to call them they are incorporated and can't be annexed into another city. I don't see a difference whatsoever.
Whatever the case, there fact is that there are plenty of unincorporated areas in the Northeast and plenty of incorporated "towns" (or small cities - no difference) in the South. Your entire post was flawed from the beginning, no matter how much you try to defend it.
Ultimately this whole thread boils down to semantics. In regard to the OP's question, most people don't use city names exclusive to one definition.
Sometimes when I talk about Portland I'm referring to the city proper (where I work, where the airport is), and other times I'm referring to the metro (population, traffic, etc.) because that frame of reference is more relevant to the question.
And that seems to be how most people talk, at least in the U.S.
Likewise, even with the same question, imagine you're talking to someone in your own metro. If they ask where you live, you're likely to be specific (I live in Fairfax County. How about you?). If you're visiting other parts of the country and someone asks where you live, you likely say "D.C." Both are correct answers in context of each particular conversation.
Oh good God...you're talking semantics. People call them towns no matter what they are officially called and they function as such. Towns, cities, villages, whatever you want to call them they are incorporated and can't be annexed into another city. I don't see a difference whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel
Whatever the case, there fact is that there are plenty of unincorporated areas in the Northeast and plenty of incorporated "towns" (or small cities - no difference) in the South. Your entire post was flawed from the beginning, no matter how much you try to defend it.
I will admit that there are plenty of southern metros with incorporated suburbs. Indeed, I did in my first post in the thread.
There are not plenty of unincorporated areas in the north though, or at least the Northeast. In New England, incorporated towns have the exact same legal rights as cities, with the main difference being the form of government (cities have mayors and city councils, towns can have government by either town meeting or a board of selectmen. While some very remote area of northern Vermont, Maine, and New Hampshire are unincorporated (these areas are basically uninhabited), otherwise the entire land area is comprised of incorporated areas. Indeed, in Connecticut, Rhode Island, and most of Massachusetts county government has been abolished - it's the responsibility of towns and cities to provide for all government services not provided by the state.
The situation is a bit murkier in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, since towns/townships are not considered incorporated by the U.S. census in these states. Speaking of Pennsylvania though, which I know the best, there is little difference, insofar as people in suburban townships elect township governments which provide for services like fire, police, garbage collection, road repair, etc - and do not rely upon the county to provide nearly any essential services.
Likewise, even with the same question, imagine you're talking to someone in your own metro. If they ask where you live, you're likely to be specific (I live in Fairfax County. How about you?). If you're visiting other parts of the country and someone asks where you live, you likely say "D.C." Both are correct answers in context of each particular conversation.
I dunno dude. I grew up in Fairfield County, Connecticut, which is clearly in the NYC metro. I never would have told anyone when I was traveling I was from New York.
I will admit that there are plenty of southern metros with incorporated suburbs. Indeed, I did in my first post in the thread.
There are not plenty of unincorporated areas in the north though, or at least the Northeast. In New England, incorporated towns have the exact same legal rights as cities, with the main difference being the form of government (cities have mayors and city councils, towns can have government by either town meeting or a board of selectmen. While some very remote area of northern Vermont, Maine, and New Hampshire are unincorporated (these areas are basically uninhabited), otherwise the entire land area is comprised of incorporated areas. Indeed, in Connecticut, Rhode Island, and most of Massachusetts county government has been abolished - it's the responsibility of towns and cities to provide for all government services not provided by the state.
The situation is a bit murkier in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, since towns/townships are not considered incorporated by the U.S. census in these states. Speaking of Pennsylvania though, which I know the best, there is little difference, insofar as people in suburban townships elect township governments which provide for services like fire, police, garbage collection, road repair, etc - and do not rely upon the county to provide nearly any essential services.
"Town" can mean almost anything...there is not a specific universal definition. That's why I was surprised you would make the statement "In the South there are no such things as incorporated towns" when that is not remotely true.
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Since the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution largely leaves local-government organization to the individual U.S. states, the definition (if any) of "town" varies widely from state to state. In some states, the term "town" refers to an area of population distinct from others in some meaningful dimension, typically population or type of government. The characteristic that distinguishes a town from another type of populated place — a city, borough, village, or township, for example — differs from state to state. In some states, a town is an incorporated municipality; that is, one with a charter received from the state, similar to a city (see incorporated town), while in others, a town is unincorporated. In some instances, the term "town" refers to a small incorporated municipality of less than a population threshold specified by state statute, while in others a town can be significantly larger. Some states do not use the term "town" at all, while in others the term has no official meaning and is used informally to refer to a populated place, of any size, whether incorporated or unincorporated. In still other states, the words "town" and "city" are legally interchangeable.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel
"Town" can mean almost anything...there is not a specific universal definition. That's why I was surprised you would make the statement "In the South there are no such things as incorporated towns" when that is not remotely true.
YES even in PA. There is only ONE technically declared "town" in PA it is a small College town named Bloomsburg. A plaque entering the TOWN notes... "Only town in PA". But you use the term "town" for a next community, city, borough ect. But not with Townships. We do call them By their township name or just say outside... this or that city/town. my hometown is completely surrounded By a township, and my hometown is technically a Borough. Some communities are technically a Village in PA.
Sounds wacky... town though is the simplest term to use for a small city/borough or Village. The term borough never gets used in common speaking.
The Midwest is harder to generalize about. Midwestern townships are technically unincorporated, but sometimes function similarly to New England towns, and sometimes effectively only exist on paper as "survey townships." Only Iowa has abolished township government though, so it still remains as a possibility. Some Midwestern cities ended up hemmed in by suburbs (Chicago, Detroit, or Cleveland), while others comprised a great deal of their metro (Columbus, Indianapolis, or Omaha).
Actually the Midwest, at least the Great Lakes area is just like the Northeast in that they have incorporated townships for more than 50 years now. The city that I live in (Kalamazoo) has been land locked since the early 1960's by mostly incorporated townships. with out being able to annex new land, Kalamazoo's population has been roughly the same for 55 years, however it's metro has gone from just over 100,000 to over 330,000 today. Those incorporated townships are no longer rural and should be part of the city.
I think there is often confusion for Los Angeles City vs. Los Angeles County vs. LA Metro/Greater LA/SoCal/The Southland).
~40% of the 10 million in LA County live in the City of LA. People in the area often use LA interchangeably most times. People in LA often dont say the City of LA. They will name neighborhoods/areas like Venice, Hollywood, Watts, Crenshaw, Westwood, Silverlake, Bel Air, Downtown, the Valley, Westside and so on. Otherwise you just say the city or area thats not in the city. When talking about the Metro, you add a county like Orange County/San Bern/Riverside/Ventura and it gets difficult to explain.
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