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Old 11-06-2015, 11:55 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn.Davenport View Post
These are my thoughts on how these "boarder cities" blend regional identities. I'm pretty well familiar with Louisville and Indy, but less so with St. Louis and Cincinnati.

St. Louis is definitively a Midwestern city with minimal Southern influence in terms of culture and moderate East Coast influence in terms of architecture.
What would you say the minimal Southern influence is, out of curiosity? Are we going back to the Civil War, or is it something more recent?
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:04 AM
 
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For any southern influence in St. Louis, there is much more northern influence. I think the city's ties to New Orleans during the pre-Civil War era may have subtle influences in certain dimensions of St. Louis culture. Other than that, STL has much more in common with Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, etc.
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i'm not a cookie View Post
What about Washington, D.C./NOVA area? Many claim it is a southern city(mainly just mid atlantic people who have a rivalry with DC and like to talk down about it). Technically they are located in the south, but I feel that they both have an overwhelmingly east coast feel(except for the black people there who have a heavy southern dialect/way of life/appearance in my opinion).

Also Oklahoma City- not sure if that's even really considered a "southern city" or Midwest city, I haven't been there so I can't really speak on it.
Oklahoma City surely isn't Southern, and I wouldn't call it Midwest. It seems like the beginning of the West. Or at least I've always had that feeling about it. Once you get to Oklahoma you've escaped the East Coast/Midwest negativity.
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John7777 View Post
Oklahoma City surely isn't Southern, and I wouldn't call it Midwest. It seems like the beginning of the West. Or at least I've always had that feeling about it. Once you get to Oklahoma you've escaped the East Coast/Midwest negativity.
It is the edge of the Southwest. I have no idea what you are referring to regarding East Coast/Midwest negativity. Texas and Oklahoma have seen positive in-migration numbers, but not true for other areas of the Great Plains region.
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Old 11-07-2015, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn.Davenport View Post
I chose these cities since they border the South and the Midwest, so they'd be easier to compare.

Richmond is interesting, though, because it feels so Southern but yet its core is more dense than what I've found in many Southern cities.

I've never been to San Antonio, but I'd love to hear about all the Texas cities blend Southern, Midwestern, and Western elements: http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-...ies-texas.html
Indianapolis?
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Old 11-08-2015, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Auburn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post
What would you say the minimal Southern influence is, out of curiosity? Are we going back to the Civil War, or is it something more recent?
Overall, St. Louis is undeniably Midwestern, and I would not call it Southern, but that doesn't mean there's not slight Southern influences here and there.

Cuisine: You'll see sweet tea and grits, on occasion in St. Louis. Barbecue seems more Southern than Midwestern.

History: As other posters have pointed out, it was very much tied to New Orleans in the past. Missouri was also a slave state.

Literature: Tennessee Williams, who seems very Southern to me, was raised in St. Louis. The Glass Menagerie was set in St. Louis.

Demographics: St. Louis has many more Southern Baptists than the rest of the Midwest; transplants from Cape Giraudoux and extreme Southeastern Missouri add a Southern accent to the city.

Dialect: You'll occasionally hear people y'alling or yes ma'aming about.

Last edited by Dawn.Davenport; 11-08-2015 at 05:53 PM..
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Old 11-08-2015, 05:35 PM
 
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1) Grits and sweet tea are fixtures on any soul food menu regardless of geography. I seriously doubt those items are any more prevalent in St. Louis than anywhere else outside of the South.

2) Tennessee Williams was from Mississippi and lived in New Orleans before moving with his parents to St. Louis. He hated St. Louis, largely because he found it "cold, smug and impersonal," and he longed for the genteel Southern charm that was absent here.

3) The St. Louis accent is well documented as an "urban speech island" and has been identified as a decidedly northern dialect:

The city of St. Louis is located squarely in the South Midland region, but it has long been recognized as a center of Northern linguistic influence. On most Atlas maps, the St. Louis speakers show features that are held in common with the North, notable particularly in the long high and mid vowels, and there a corridor of northern influence that runs from northern Illinois to St. Louis (see Map 1). However, the specific configuration of St. Louis vowel system is local to the city in several respects. The most remarkable of these is a merger of /ahr/ and /ohr/ in card and cord, usually at the level of the mid vowel. This merger appears to be waning among younger speakers, and the vowel system seems to be shifting even more in the direction of the Inland North. National Map

"y'all" and "ma'am" are no more common here than than they are in any other city with a large African-American population.

4) Missouri was a slave state under the Missouri Compromise, but it never seceded to the South and was never officially part of the Confederacy (thanks to St. Louis being a Union stronghold). The famous Dred Scott slavery case was tried in St. Louis, with a local circuit court finding in favor of Dred Scott, a decision that was later overturned by the Supreme Court.

There are certain characteristics of the city's French heritage that may mimic the unique cultural overtones of New Orleans, but beyond that St. Louis is a northern/Midwestern industrial city through and through, with far more in common with other Rust Belt cities than any city in the South.
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:24 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,483 posts, read 2,223,013 times
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Interestingly enough, St. Louis actually lost control of its own police force during the Civil War because the pro-secessionist Governor of Missouri was worried that pro-Union St. Louis would overthrow the state government. St. Louis didn't get control back until just 2 or 3 years ago.
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Auburn, New York
1,775 posts, read 2,510,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
1) Grits and sweet tea are fixtures on any soul food menu regardless of geography. I seriously doubt those items are any more prevalent in St. Louis than anywhere else outside of the South.

2) Tennessee Williams was from Mississippi and lived in New Orleans before moving with his parents to St. Louis. He hated St. Louis, largely because he found it "cold, smug and impersonal," and he longed for the genteel Southern charm that was absent here.

3) The St. Louis accent is well documented as an "urban speech island" and has been identified as a decidedly northern dialect:

The city of St. Louis is located squarely in the South Midland region, but it has long been recognized as a center of Northern linguistic influence. On most Atlas maps, the St. Louis speakers show features that are held in common with the North, notable particularly in the long high and mid vowels, and there a corridor of northern influence that runs from northern Illinois to St. Louis (see Map 1). However, the specific configuration of St. Louis vowel system is local to the city in several respects. The most remarkable of these is a merger of /ahr/ and /ohr/ in card and cord, usually at the level of the mid vowel. This merger appears to be waning among younger speakers, and the vowel system seems to be shifting even more in the direction of the Inland North. National Map

"y'all" and "ma'am" are no more common here than than they are in any other city with a large African-American population.

4) Missouri was a slave state under the Missouri Compromise, but it never seceded to the South and was never officially part of the Confederacy (thanks to St. Louis being a Union stronghold). The famous Dred Scott slavery case was tried in St. Louis, with a local circuit court finding in favor of Dred Scott, a decision that was later overturned by the Supreme Court.

There are certain characteristics of the city's French heritage that may mimic the unique cultural overtones of New Orleans, but beyond that St. Louis is a northern/Midwestern industrial city through and through, with far more in common with other Rust Belt cities than any city in the South.
It seems like you're arguing with me, but in reality we agree. St. Louis is a Midwestern city with slight Southern influences.
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Old 02-18-2016, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,053 posts, read 4,088,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I think Richmond or San Antonio or Austin would have been better options than Indianapolis here.
Baltimore would have been better as well.
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