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Old 03-06-2016, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
763 posts, read 223,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happiness-is-close View Post
I have personally asked people from both Birmingham and as recently two weeks ago Charleston, SC and they did not consider Louisville Southern. At the time I have met people dome St. Louis and Cinncinatti who put Louisville in the same family of cities as their own.

There is more Midwest to Louisville than the OP is implying. Lots of industry, lots of 19th century Germans, Catholics, Lutherans.

Louisville and its diverse, industrial people pushed kentucky towards the union.
Actually there were many different reasons Louisville chose the union. Louisville was not a northern union city, it was a southern city that remained loyal to the union and there is a big difference. Louisville along with the entire state of KY chose the union for very different reasons than northern states. Remember this is a slave holding city in a slave holding state. Louisville has a distinct and dark history with slavery in that it was the largest slave trading city in the country. Jefferson County had the largest number of slaves in the state (11% of total population) and there was a very lucrative intra-state slave trade. So one of the primary arguments to stay in the Union during that time among Kentuckians was that the Federal Govt was the best protector of that institution. When it became apparent that Emancipation materialized as primary goal of the war Union sentiment collapsed throughout the state including in Louisville. Postbellum Louisville was actually very southern in that they totally embraced the "Lost Cause" movement. I am attaching a link that has a great deal of info on this history, you just need to read the Intro to get the idea, its about 9 pages.

https://books.google.com/books/about...page&q&f=false

Today's Louisville is most definitely a hybrid between the two regions. But its cultural origins are definitely in the South.
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Old 03-06-2016, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
763 posts, read 223,975 times
Reputation: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
1) Grits and sweet tea are fixtures on any soul food menu regardless of geography. I seriously doubt those items are any more prevalent in St. Louis than anywhere else outside of the South.

2) Tennessee Williams was from Mississippi and lived in New Orleans before moving with his parents to St. Louis. He hated St. Louis, largely because he found it "cold, smug and impersonal," and he longed for the genteel Southern charm that was absent here.

3) The St. Louis accent is well documented as an "urban speech island" and has been identified as a decidedly northern dialect:

The city of St. Louis is located squarely in the South Midland region, but it has long been recognized as a center of Northern linguistic influence. On most Atlas maps, the St. Louis speakers show features that are held in common with the North, notable particularly in the long high and mid vowels, and there a corridor of northern influence that runs from northern Illinois to St. Louis (see Map 1). However, the specific configuration of St. Louis vowel system is local to the city in several respects. The most remarkable of these is a merger of /ahr/ and /ohr/ in card and cord, usually at the level of the mid vowel. This merger appears to be waning among younger speakers, and the vowel system seems to be shifting even more in the direction of the Inland North. National Map

"y'all" and "ma'am" are no more common here than than they are in any other city with a large African-American population.

4) Missouri was a slave state under the Missouri Compromise, but it never seceded to the South and was never officially part of the Confederacy (thanks to St. Louis being a Union stronghold). The famous Dred Scott slavery case was tried in St. Louis, with a local circuit court finding in favor of Dred Scott, a decision that was later overturned by the Supreme Court.

There are certain characteristics of the city's French heritage that may mimic the unique cultural overtones of New Orleans, but beyond that St. Louis is a northern/Midwestern industrial city through and through, with far more in common with other Rust Belt cities than any city in the South.
Here is a much better map to make your point

American English Dialects

There were plenty of southerners in antebellum St. Louis but the southern culture never became the predominate culture.
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Old 03-06-2016, 05:00 PM
 
892 posts, read 1,082,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Here is a much better map to make your point

American English Dialects

There were plenty of southerners in antebellum St. Louis but the southern culture never became the predominate culture.
You're right. St. Louis had a lot of early settlers from Virginia, Maryland and the Carolinas, but also a LOT from New York, Philly and New England. The German influx during just before the Civil War solidified the city's decidedly northern/abolitionist identity.
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Old 03-06-2016, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,649 posts, read 17,623,979 times
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The most Southern influence I see in Indy is that sweet tea is more readily available than further north or west. You rarely hear a Southern accent, and any other aspect of Southern culture is muted to nonexistent
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Old 03-17-2016, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,105 posts, read 4,125,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The most Southern influence I see in Indy is that sweet tea is more readily available than further north or west. You rarely hear a Southern accent, and any other aspect of Southern culture is muted to nonexistent
I didn't hear any southern accents, but experienced plenty of country/blue collar types. There is an immediate rural aspect (wide open farm land with little to no development) that gives the appearance of a southern area outside and inside the city limits, but again rural and southern are not mutually exclusive (see Vermont, Idaho, Nebraska) The sweet tea thing is really not a good indicator of southern influence, as it has become more of a general American thing. Indianapolis is the least southern (if at all) of these cities. Louisville is the only city in this group where the southern influence is much more apparent (visibly and in dialect).
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Old 03-17-2016, 04:57 AM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,414 posts, read 7,717,153 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by i'm not a cookie View Post
What about Washington, D.C./NOVA area? Many claim it is a southern city(mainly just mid atlantic people who have a rivalry with DC and like to talk down about it). Technically they are located in the south, but I feel that they both have an overwhelmingly east coast feel(except for the black people there who have a heavy southern dialect/way of life/appearance in my opinion).

Also Oklahoma City- not sure if that's even really considered a "southern city" or Midwest city, I haven't been there so I can't really speak on it.
OK City is a good mixture of South and West (think of Little Rock/Fort Smith, Fort Worth, & ABQ all rolled into one). The so-called Midwestern elements are nil and not really prevalent in abundance until you get to Wichita or even KC.
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Old 03-17-2016, 12:37 PM
 
4,407 posts, read 4,615,859 times
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Of that list I have only been to St. Louis which seemed solidly Midwestern to me. It reminded me of the city I was born in , Milwaukee, except on the Mississippi River instead of Lake Michigan.

I have a friend in St Louis who argues (in his very Midwestern sounding St Louis accent) that St Louis is the Northern most Southern City in the country. I disagree.The rest of Missouri has a Southern feel to me but not St Louis.
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,230,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
Of that list I have only been to St. Louis which seemed solidly Midwestern to me. It reminded me of the city I was born in , Milwaukee, except on the Mississippi River instead of Lake Michigan.

I have a friend in St Louis who argues (in his very Midwestern sounding St Louis accent) that St Louis is the Northern most Southern City in the country. I disagree.The rest of Missouri has a Southern feel to me but not St Louis.
Missouri doesn't feel Southern anywhere except for the Southern third of the state.
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Old 06-29-2016, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,105 posts, read 4,125,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Missouri doesn't feel Southern anywhere except for the Southern third of the state.
I agree.
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