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Old 11-07-2015, 08:04 PM
Status: "RIP Solomon Tekah" (set 4 days ago)
 
1,223 posts, read 578,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
What "dull upper South thing"?
Upper South isn't all that specific to me, it's nondescript and bland as a term. Middle Atlantic actually has a specific culture that is easy to describe to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvabread22 View Post
Funny, but Atlanta is actually less Southern than Richmond.At least to me. I do not fit in with folks from Baltimore. They talk weird.Do people in Baltimore even know what pimento cheese is? No, they don't. I can't believe you could lump Richmond in with Baltimore/Philly culture. Just because we both have row houses? Charleston has row houses. To me, they are more like us. Also, if you say Virginia is Mid-Atlantic, then Kentucky should be called the Midwest.
I don't agree, ATL metro is larger than RVA and has way more to do but RVA is definitely closer to BMore than it is to ATL. Even though QT has better coffee, I killed WaWa sandwiches up there (they're everywhere up there)...Herr's chips are fairly popular in your area, Scrapple would be on the menu at some RVA spots, and of course you can get good crab in the RVA metro (y'all are even big on Old Bay seasoning too).
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Old 11-07-2015, 08:12 PM
 
29,873 posts, read 27,324,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80s_kid View Post
Upper South isn't all that specific to me, it's nondescript and bland as a term. Middle Atlantic actually has a specific culture that is easy to describe to me.
Gotcha. I think the term is more geographic than anything, i.e. the non-Deep South part of the South.
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:22 AM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,979 posts, read 3,448,313 times
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People are putting way to much emphasis on big cities/metro's here and comparing those to determine what state is a part of the region. The emphasis should be much broader and on a regional and almost statewide aspect.

In the mid-Atlantic region you experience two glaring cultural differences geographically. The first being obviously the differences you have going from north to south in the mid-Atlantic. Every 100 miles up you go from the bottom of VA all the way through NJ you will notice the differences in culture, change of pace etc.

The other glaring difference is what you experience going inland from east to west from the coast line. This is equally important when talking about similarities amongst mid-Atlantic states. You have Coastal Va, the DelMarVa/ Eastern Shore areas, and even Coastal NJ to an extent that are very much alike. Going inland from there you have the I-95 cooridor from which is obviously more populated but this runs practically up from Richmond/Petersburg all the way up. You can of course make out cultural differences from Philadelphia vs places like Richmond but I'm sure you could do the same with Philly and Pittsburgh. Many cities even within their own respective states have drastic cultural differences. I feel like the I-95 cooridor is much more similar than many people think even if there are some cultural differences as you go northward.

As you continue westward from the coast you reach the I-81 cooridor which also stretches from Virginia up into PA. You may notice more similarities in towns within this stretch (which includes W Va) than in the big cities. I think regionally speaking these coastal to inland differences are as much of a factor in what makes up the mid-Atlantic states.
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Old 11-08-2015, 10:26 AM
 
1,502 posts, read 1,392,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvabread22 View Post
With the exception of the DC area, I don't find Virginia to be very 'Mid Atlantic". Its just plain 'ol Southern. I mean yes it has more Northern qualities about it then say- Alabama, but that doesn't mean its a Northern state. It was a Southern colony, not a Middle one. Its climate, culture and everything are not very Northern IMO. If Virginia must bec considered Mid Atlantic- then Why is Kentucky not considered the Midwest, then? Virginia was at least in the Confederacy.

The same can be said for Maryland. Both Maryland and Virginia were Chesapeake Colonies which was a part of the Southern Colony region. Maryland has an Appalachian, Eastern Shore and a District of Columbia region just like Virginia.
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Old 11-08-2015, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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The American South is definitively those states who were part of the Confederacy. End debate. No, border states do not count, despite if they retained slavery or not. It really is that simple, and I don't understand why people will endlessly debate something that's so cut and dry. Virginia of all places housed the capital of the Confederacy! So it's clearly a Southern state if there ever was, even given NOVA and its (relative) northern position.

So, to get back to the thread, 3 out of the 4 constituents of the current Mid-Atlantic that have a coastline were never part of the Confederacy (DC, MD, and DE). Thus, they are viewed as more part of the Northeast rather than the South (WV is landlocked so it is kind of hard to define as Mid-Atlantic when it doesn't touch the Atlantic). Only Virginia is clearly the odd man out of the Mid-Atlantic.

When 3 out of 4 areas in the Mid-Atlantic were never truly part of the South, and align more closely with the rest of the Northeast culturally, demographically, economically and physically, then the Mid-Atlantic tends to get redefined from its original definition (PA, NJ, NY) and lumped more with the Northeast. And yes, I'm aware of the Census definition of the South. Not very accurate, and done more for expedience than accuracy (which is why there are even conflicting definitions with in our own government).

Last edited by qworldorder; 11-08-2015 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 11-08-2015, 01:03 PM
 
29,873 posts, read 27,324,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qworldorder View Post
The American South is definitively those states who were part of the Confederacy. End debate. No, border states do not count, despite if they retained slavery or not. It really is that simple, and I don't understand why people will endlessly debate something that's so cut and dry. Virginia of all places housed the capital of the Confederacy! So it's clearly a Southern state if there ever was, even given NOVA and its (relative) northern position.
What's your basis for saying such? Kentucky is still considered a Southern state (albeit with some Midwestern influences) even though it never seceded. Also many West Virginians consider their state essentially Southern.
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,734 posts, read 3,846,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer114 View Post
Tidewater has been considered Mid-Atlantic for decades, probably long before NoVa ever was.
NY, NJ, and PA have been mid-Atlantic for hundreds of years. The mid-Atlantic culture has been creeping South, especially after WW2, with the urbanization and growth of DC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80s_kid View Post
I see where you're coming from but how many from NY, NJ, and PA identify with the Mid-Atlantic label?
Most people would? They teach it in school here. Northeast is divided into two sub-regions - New England and middle Atlantic. New England is comprised of New England states of MA, ME, CT, NH, RI, and VT, and mid-Atlantic is comprised of Northeast states not in New England, the Middle Colonies of NY, NJ, and PA.

Last edited by Gantz; 11-09-2015 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:36 PM
Status: "RIP Solomon Tekah" (set 4 days ago)
 
1,223 posts, read 578,430 times
Reputation: 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
People are putting way to much emphasis on big cities/metro's here and comparing those to determine what state is a part of the region. The emphasis should be much broader and on a regional and almost statewide aspect.

In the mid-Atlantic region you experience two glaring cultural differences geographically. The first being obviously the differences you have going from north to south in the mid-Atlantic. Every 100 miles up you go from the bottom of VA all the way through NJ you will notice the differences in culture, change of pace etc.

The other glaring difference is what you experience going inland from east to west from the coast line. This is equally important when talking about similarities amongst mid-Atlantic states. You have Coastal Va, the DelMarVa/ Eastern Shore areas, and even Coastal NJ to an extent that are very much alike. Going inland from there you have the I-95 cooridor from which is obviously more populated but this runs practically up from Richmond/Petersburg all the way up
. You can of course make out cultural differences from Philadelphia vs places like Richmond but I'm sure you could do the same with Philly and Pittsburgh. Many cities even within their own respective states have drastic cultural differences. I feel like the I-95 cooridor is much more similar than many people think even if there are some cultural differences as you go northward.

As you continue westward from the coast you reach the I-81 cooridor which also stretches from Virginia up into PA. You may notice more similarities in towns within this stretch (which includes W Va) than in the big cities. I think regionally speaking these coastal to inland differences are as much of a factor in what makes up the mid-Atlantic states.
Spot on post man. These are some of the things I noticed even when I visited the area...it became even more apparent living in the area.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:19 PM
Status: "RIP Solomon Tekah" (set 4 days ago)
 
1,223 posts, read 578,430 times
Reputation: 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Most people would? They teach it in school here. Northeast is divided into two sub-regions - New England and middle Atlantic. New England is comprised of New England states of MA, ME, CT, NH, RI, and VT, and mid-Atlantic is comprised of Northeast states not in New England, the Middle Colonies of NY, NJ, and PA.
They teach the academic definition of the region but it isn't really promoted by those in PA, NY, & NJ. It's something as simple as the weather channel mentioning how a snow storm will hit New England (show the weather map) as opposed to just saying how the Tri-State area will warm up this weekend (shows NY, Northern NJ, CT) or seeing some car commercial mentioning the Delaware Valley in PA. That's what I'm getting at NY, NJ, and PA puts that Mid-Atlantic designation in the background in favor of other terms used to describe their region....then you have Maryland and VA who took it and ran with it to the point that their culture, region, and businesses are what most think of when we hear Mid-Atlantic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
NY, NJ, and PA have been mid-Atlantic for hundreds of years. The mid-Atlantic culture has been creeping South, especially after WW2, with the urbanization and growth of DC.
We've definitely seen a billion "is so and so Northern or Southern?" threads and I've contributed in almost all of them. My thoughts on the colloquial Mid-Atlantic is that it is a region that is East Coast (and historically Southern) but between the Southeast and Northeast....that's how strong the culture is to me.

Edit: Basically, Potomac River and Chesapeake Bay culture.

Last edited by 80s_kid; 11-09-2015 at 02:40 PM..
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:29 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,138,839 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
When I was a child our geography textbook used the U.S. census definition, with the Mid-Atlantic defined as NY, NJ, and PA only.

I'm fine with the idea of including DE or even MD in with Mid-Atlantic. But I find the definitions which only include MD/DE/DC/VA kind of weird, because then there is no word for the non New England portion of the Northeast.

I mostly (actually in total) agree, growing up I always thought I lived in the Mid Atlantic and NJ to me was always kind of the center of it, anything below MD seems a stretch to me. I mean it was tauht as a fact I was in the Mid Atlantic and reading here sometime it would seem that PA and NJ are not part of it, always confused me as I thought this was basically MA ground zero

I thik I always thought NY/NJ/PA - The Mid Atlantic was the lower part of the North East with New England to the North but maybe its just me
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