U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-10-2015, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,315 posts, read 1,659,596 times
Reputation: 3586

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Growing up I thought the Mid-Atlantic was just the Baltimore and DC metros. Most of the people I know have NEVER consider MD was southern state. Unheard of to most Marylanders.
Most Marylanders or people in general? You are exaggerating by saying that it's unheard of to Marylanders that it's a southern state. It's always been classified as Southern by the government (no matter how flawed the Census is)....my point is that Marylanders know that they are technically considered southern, so it's not "unheard of" to them.

I grew up in MD and several people from the northeast that I went to college with or who moved to the area, consider MD a southern state. Although to be honest, it's about 50/50. Many people from the midwest consider Maryland southern (again about 50/50). Sometimes people from the midwest are shocked that the state borders Pennsylvania. The vast majority of people from the deep south don't consider Maryland southern.

Even some Marylanders consider the state southern, although most people I know consider it either Mid-Atlantic or don't classify it at all. Your assertion that it's unheard of to most MD's to have EVER heard MD considered a southern state is laughable!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-10-2015, 07:09 AM
 
1,705 posts, read 1,368,426 times
Reputation: 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
Most Marylanders or people in general? You are exaggerating by saying that it's unheard of to Marylanders that it's a southern state. It's always been classified as Southern by the government (no matter how flawed the Census is)....my point is that Marylanders know that they are technically considered southern, so it's not "unheard of" to them.
Um... I'm guessing you were no where near the DC suburbs of Maryland because they literally would think you're crazy to call MD the south. I can't speak for the MD suburbs outside of the DC area though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 07:35 AM
 
29,946 posts, read 27,406,003 times
Reputation: 18529
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVA_guy View Post
Um... I'm guessing you were no where near the DC suburbs of Maryland because they literally would think you're crazy to call MD the south. I can't speak for the MD suburbs outside of the DC area though.
He's saying that folks in Maryland are aware of the state's historical designation at the least, and many are aware that some still do consider the state Southern even if they themselves don't. Heck I met a Black DC native and current resident recently who considers his hometown to still be the South. I know he's in the minority but hey, some of those folks are obviously still around.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 07:51 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,748 posts, read 6,154,664 times
Reputation: 3601
We can agree to disagree.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 09:17 AM
 
29,946 posts, read 27,406,003 times
Reputation: 18529
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
We can agree to disagree.
So they don't teach that Maryland was historically considered a Southern state in public schools in Maryland?????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 09:39 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,915,669 times
Reputation: 6424
Default The spread of the Mid-Atlantic southward

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakeesha View Post
Hi! I think because we tend to have a tendency to define regions from a top down, east west manner. That also plays into the constant condemnation that having "any" southern influence is almost always seen as a negative thing, which it is not.


Yes! It would help tremendously if there were a more solid designation of the Upper South, as many people that have never been to the region believe the South is entirely the same. Of course there are always historical markers such as slavery, confederacy, accents etc. that give the South its stereotypical definitions. However, sub regions have their own distinctive characteristics as well that should be better defined.

Border states have always been confusing territory. Having traveled extensively across the great state of Kentucky, I will say that things start to change around Louisville and Northern Kentucky, Basically the I-71 spine. Accents, development patterns/architecture, and culture are increasingly Midwestern (IMO), but the census does not define it as such. Paducah and Evansville (Owensboro/Henderson) are more like Southern Missouri/Illinois, Bowling Green could easily be a suburb of Nashville, and Lexington has the Appalachian influences etc. Most would firmly agree, however, that Kentucky is a Southern state.

What do y'all think?
[/quote]

Good post.

Regarding MARYLAND, I think I was able to find some evidence when the term Mid-Atlantic began to spread southward. It seems to be around the late 1800s and early 1900s when Maryland began to be associating with the more Northern states instead of the Southern states.

1887 - Middle States AND Maryland Association of Colleges and Schools (academic)
1904 - The Colonization of the Middle States AND Maryland (history book)
1906 - The Classical Association of the Middle States AND Maryland (artistic society)
1911 - Association of Teachers of Mathematics for the Middle States AND Maryland (academic)

Note the word AND. Maryland was beginning to associate with the Middle States but was not yet part of them. Thus the historic Census definition makes sense. There was a proposal in the 1950s for the Census to include Maryland as a Mid-Atlantic state but it was not passed.

In any case to make a long story short, sometime from roughly 1900 to 1950, there was a change in Maryland. No longer considering themselves Southern (for the most part) but not yet ready to call themselves Northeastern - they increasingly adopted the Mid-Atlantic label and made it their own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
He's saying that folks in Maryland are aware of the state's historical designation at the least, and many are aware that some still do consider the state Southern even if they themselves don't. Heck I met a Black DC native and current resident recently who considers his hometown to still be the South. I know he's in the minority but hey, some of those folks are obviously still around.
40% of Maryland respondents in the Southern Focus Poll said that they considered their community to be in the South. So yeah, there are some people who consider it Southern, and I would say 40% is not some tiny minority.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
So they don't teach that Maryland was historically considered a Southern state in public schools in Maryland?????
Was Maryland Ever a Southern State?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post

Good post.

Regarding MARYLAND, I think I was able to find some evidence when the term Mid-Atlantic began to spread southward. It seems to be around the late 1800s and early 1900s when Maryland began to be associating with the more Northern states instead of the Southern states.

1887 - Middle States AND Maryland Association of Colleges and Schools (academic)
1904 - The Colonization of the Middle States AND Maryland (history book)
1906 - The Classical Association of the Middle States AND Maryland (artistic society)
1911 - Association of Teachers of Mathematics for the Middle States AND Maryland (academic)

Note the word AND. Maryland was beginning to associate with the Middle States but was not yet part of them. Thus the historic Census definition makes sense. There was a proposal in the 1950s for the Census to include Maryland as a Mid-Atlantic state but it was not passed.

In any case to make a long story short, sometime from roughly 1900 to 1950, there was a change in Maryland. No longer considering themselves Southern (for the most part) but not yet ready to call themselves Northeastern - they increasingly adopted the Mid-Atlantic label and made it their own.
The University of Maryland was also an inaugural member of the Southern Conference in 1921 (then later the Atlantic Coast Conference in 1953).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southe...Former_members

It was also a member of the Southern Legislative Council and is still a member of the Southern Governors Association. Maryland moved from the Southern to the Eastern Region of the Council of Governments in 2011 and its flagship university left the ACC for the Big Ten. Interestingly, though, Maryland is still a member of the Southern Regional Education Board.

http://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual...tml/19sed.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 10:42 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,748 posts, read 6,154,664 times
Reputation: 3601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
A lot of large people don't think they're fat either. You can visit historic plantations use during slavery in both Maryland and Virginia which is something you can do in New Jersey, New York or Pennsylvania.
There were large plantations all over NY, PA, NJ, but they weren't preserved. Not sure how your point ties into being a MD being a mid Atlantic state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top