U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-10-2015, 09:02 PM
 
12,655 posts, read 10,497,278 times
Reputation: 17559

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
There were large plantations all over NY, PA, NJ, but they weren't preserved. Not sure how your point ties into being a MD being a mid Atlantic state.
Ehh. The further north you went, the less likely you were to find plantations. Climate (and geography) in the South allowed for maximum use of slavery and plantation style farming. The Northern states, including NY NJ and at least parts of PA, industrialized way before the South did. That's one reason that eventually led to the Civil War - the North found less use for slavery, a practice they used less frequently in the first place, while the South was still agricultural and relied heavily on slave labor rather than industrialized factories.

I don't know how many plantations were in MD or really any state, how many survived for how long, and how many there are today, but it is true that the further north you went, the less likely you would have been to find plantations and a ton of slaves, especially as time went on. If I were to make an educated guess I would say Virginia is the state where plantations really started to become popular when looking at a map, and going South from there along the coast and into the Gulf.

NJ, NY, and PA were not known as plantation states. They were not even really known as slave states (because they weren't and still are not Southern). Maryland was known as a slave state, and a Southern state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-10-2015, 09:02 PM
 
29,916 posts, read 27,355,630 times
Reputation: 18453
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80s_kid View Post
How would you describe the culture of the original definition (NY, NJ, PA) and does it really match up with the new flag bearers of the term now (MD, DC, VA)?
I think the biggest difference is that there's practically no "Southernness" to be found in the original mid-Atlantic region, whereas there are very obvious Southern undertones in MD/DC/VA to varying degrees, with most of VA being outright Southern.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 10:05 PM
 
Location: SW Pennsylvania
821 posts, read 1,253,976 times
Reputation: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Ehh. The further north you went, the less likely you were to find plantations. Climate (and geography) in the South allowed for maximum use of slavery and plantation style farming. The Northern states, including NY NJ and at least parts of PA, industrialized way before the South did. That's one reason that eventually led to the Civil War - the North found less use for slavery, a practice they used less frequently in the first place, while the South was still agricultural and relied heavily on slave labor rather than industrialized factories.

I don't know how many plantations were in MD or really any state, how many survived for how long, and how many there are today, but it is true that the further north you went, the less likely you would have been to find plantations and a ton of slaves, especially as time went on. If I were to make an educated guess I would say Virginia is the state where plantations really started to become popular when looking at a map, and going South from there along the coast and into the Gulf.

NJ, NY, and PA were not known as plantation states. They were not even really known as slave states (because they weren't and still are not Southern). Maryland was known as a slave state, and a Southern state.
After I read this, I found this interesting tidbit online :http://www.ushistory.org/presidentsh.../ajc030203.htm

Quite an interesting read. I didn't know about northern plantations until I read this. But it's true that the southern states had more of an economic incentive to keep the plantations as long as they could. It's a horrible part of American History though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 10:42 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,976 posts, read 3,456,237 times
Reputation: 2445
There are a couple of things I think need to be pointed out. First with this whole confederacy talk, I quite literally was in upstate NY this summer and riding between Binghamton and Rochester counted at least 3 confederate flags on the doorsteps of homes in New York State. So squash the whole confederate talk because to me that's all a moot point regarding north/south. I think rednecks exist everywhere. Second, slavery and plantations etc can't be denied, but that was two centuries ago and doesn't tie into the modern day influences of mid Atlantic states like Maryland.(not to say natives don't know it didn't happen) When you look at the modern political landscape and religious demographics Maryland although not completely "Northeastern" doesn't skew towards being southern at all, Virginia is a different story.

For me personally I know mid-Atlantic is more of a fairly new loose term used as a sub-region, but living here in the DMV area I've honestly never saw anything outside of DC/MD/VA and DE as truly mid Atlantic. Pennsylvania doesn't even touch the Atlantic, and outside of the Philadelphia metro area the state doesn't have many features that come close to "mid Atlantic." NY is completely NE and the same applies there outside of NYC metro and Long Island I don't see it as "Middle Atlantic." About 1/3 maybe 1/2 of NJ I would say can be thrown in there and placed in the mid Atlantic arguably, but the whole state I'm not sure. The further you go north in NJ it just becomes plain old NE IMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2015, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Prince George's County, Maryland
6,212 posts, read 7,386,896 times
Reputation: 2581
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
There are a couple of things I think need to be pointed out. First with this whole confederacy talk, I quite literally was in upstate NY this summer and riding between Binghamton and Rochester counted at least 3 confederate flags on the doorsteps of homes in New York State. So squash the whole confederate talk because to me that's all a moot point regarding north/south. I think rednecks exist everywhere. Second, slavery and plantations etc can't be denied, but that was two centuries ago and doesn't tie into the modern day influences of mid Atlantic states like Maryland.(not to say natives don't know it didn't happen) When you look at the modern political landscape and religious demographics Maryland although not completely "Northeastern" doesn't skew towards being southern at all, Virginia is a different story.

For me personally I know mid-Atlantic is more of a fairly new loose term used as a sub-region, but living here in the DMV area I've honestly never saw anything outside of DC/MD/VA and DE as truly mid Atlantic. Pennsylvania doesn't even touch the Atlantic, and outside of the Philadelphia metro area the state doesn't have many features that come close to "mid Atlantic." NY is completely NE and the same applies there outside of NYC metro and Long Island I don't see it as "Middle Atlantic." About 1/3 maybe 1/2 of NJ I would say can be thrown in there and placed in the mid Atlantic arguably, but the whole state I'm not sure. The further you go north in NJ it just becomes plain old NE IMO.
This.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2015, 07:07 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,152,919 times
Reputation: 7738
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
There are a couple of things I think need to be pointed out. First with this whole confederacy talk, I quite literally was in upstate NY this summer and riding between Binghamton and Rochester counted at least 3 confederate flags on the doorsteps of homes in New York State. So squash the whole confederate talk because to me that's all a moot point regarding north/south. I think rednecks exist everywhere. Second, slavery and plantations etc can't be denied, but that was two centuries ago and doesn't tie into the modern day influences of mid Atlantic states like Maryland.(not to say natives don't know it didn't happen) When you look at the modern political landscape and religious demographics Maryland although not completely "Northeastern" doesn't skew towards being southern at all, Virginia is a different story.

For me personally I know mid-Atlantic is more of a fairly new loose term used as a sub-region, but living here in the DMV area I've honestly never saw anything outside of DC/MD/VA and DE as truly mid Atlantic. Pennsylvania doesn't even touch the Atlantic, and outside of the Philadelphia metro area the state doesn't have many features that come close to "mid Atlantic." NY is completely NE and the same applies there outside of NYC metro and Long Island I don't see it as "Middle Atlantic." About 1/3 maybe 1/2 of NJ I would say can be thrown in there and placed in the mid Atlantic arguably, but the whole state I'm not sure. The further you go north in NJ it just becomes plain old NE IMO.

again the Mid Atlantic is a sub region of the Northeast, they ARE NOT mutually exclusive jut as New England is sub region

The Northeast has two regions with New England and the Mid Atlantic

I personally cant fathom how NJ etc are not in the Mid Atlantic, they are the center of the Mid Atlantic and always have been
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2015, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,231,676 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
I personally cant fathom how NJ etc are not in the Mid Atlantic, they are the center of the Mid Atlantic and always have been
Look at how these cities are described on their respective Wiki pages.

Founded in 1729, Baltimore is the second largest seaport in the Mid-Atlantic.

In the Northeastern United States, at the confluence of the Delaware and Schuylkill River, Philadelphia is the economic and cultural center of the Delaware Valley.

Washington, D.C., is located in the mid-Atlantic region of the U.S. East Coast.

New York City is situated in the Northeastern United States, in southeastern New York State, approximately halfway between Washington, D.C. and Boston.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2015, 09:23 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,735 posts, read 6,139,094 times
Reputation: 3590
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallydude02 View Post
After I read this, I found this interesting tidbit online :Digs unearth slave plantations in North

Quite an interesting read. I didn't know about northern plantations until I read this. But it's true that the southern states had more of an economic incentive to keep the plantations as long as they could. It's a horrible part of American History though.
Thanks, I was going to post this exact article yesterday. Very interesting to see how people react when what they believe is true doesn't coincide with facts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,298 posts, read 1,651,567 times
Reputation: 3558
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
again the Mid Atlantic is a sub region of the Northeast, they ARE NOT mutually exclusive jut as New England is sub region

The Northeast has two regions with New England and the Mid Atlantic

I personally cant fathom how NJ etc are not in the Mid Atlantic, they are the center of the Mid Atlantic and always have been
I understand what you're saying, and you're technically right, but I think the poster's point (and others) is that hardly anyone from the northeast-mid Atlantic (PA, NJ, NY) commonly use "Mid-Atlantic" to describe where they are from. In my experience, almost everyone I know from that region just says that they're from the Northeast. Similarly, the only people I know who ever use Mid-Atlantic to describe where they're from are from MD/DC/VA (I'm don't know too many people from DE, so I'm not sure about them).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2015, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,512 posts, read 2,971,553 times
Reputation: 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
Similarly, the only people I know who ever use Mid-Atlantic to describe where they're from are from MD/DC/VA (I'm don't know too many people from DE, so I'm not sure about them).
I'm from Delaware and I consider myself part of the Northeast, as do many others--although it's not taboo to consider oneself from the Mid-Atlantic, as many (myself included) do. Mid-Atlantic and Northeast are not mutually exclusive at all, as has been elaborated by others.

About the only thing Delawareans won't consider themselves is Southern, Census definition be damned. 75% of the state lives in the Philadelphia CSA, and this is reflected in speech patterns, demographics and even media.

Even those down in Sussex County, the only area even up for discussion as Southern due to its rural nature, identify with Baltimore and Ocean City, MD, two cities that are hardly Southern. They may drawl their words and do country **** down there, but country doesn't automatically equal Southern.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top