Why is the Mid-Atlantic region lumped in with the N.E.? (middle-class, neighborhood)

[KodeBlue]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

The midpoint of the East Coast is somewhere in that 10-mile radius between Emporia, Virginia and the VA/NC state line. So among other things, yes, Virginia is not only in the middle of the East Coast, but the overwhelming majority of Virginia is on the northern half of the East Coast, if it were cleanly broken into two halves...

@ivory lee, it is a misconception that only Nova has culturally transformed Virginia. I'm not specifically saying you, but many people ignorant of Virginia just simply don't recognize that Nova is just the largest, loudest area that is a larger scale version of political and societal trends in RVA and HRVA...

Virginia and Maryland can't really be regionally separated, though many CDers attempt to. Three quarters of Virginians live in The Crescent (Nova x Central Virginia x Tidewater), which shares hundreds of years of history and cultural exchange/similarities with Maryland. I would obviously say Maryland has the more northern feel, and Virginia the more southern, but these two states have more in common and anyone being honest or familiar with both Maryland and urban VA can admit that...

So I don't consider VA northern at all, nor Maryland fully northern, but I also consider neither fully southern. Urban VA is considered southern to only places north of DC and starkly stand out when being compared to other regions of the South. They just both fit into the modern application of "mid-Atlantic"...

Urban VA doesn't stand out if you consider that the two major cities to the north of at are very urban, yet also southern.

[LINative]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

Literally next to no one considers New York the Mid-Atlantic anymore lol. New Yorkers don't even identify as such. You're about a century late...

Otherwise, point taken, I just wanted to remind you!

Ah, you remind me of several Upper Southern states who in the last 100 years or so did not want to be considered part of the South anymore so they increasingly coopted the name from a neighboring historic region called the Middle Atlantic.

But you are right about New York, we usually emphasize Northeast, which New York State is more or less at the center of. Plus in New York there is no identity crisis in which of the 4 main regions we are in, West, Midwest, Northeast or the South so we did not need to emphasize a sub-region as much.

[murksiderock]

Originally Posted by LINative

Ah, you remind me of several Upper Southern states who in the last 100 years or so did not want to be considered part of the South anymore so they increasingly coopted the name from a neighboring historic region called the Middle Atlantic.

But you are right about New York, we usually emphasize Northeast, which New York State is more or less at the center of. Plus in New York there is no identity crisis in which of the 4 main regions we are in, West, Midwest, Northeast or the South so we did not need to emphasize a sub-region as much.

Here's the thing though, southerners from Maryland, DC and Virginia coopting the Mid-Atlantic identity was not just about not wanting to align with the South, though I think it has been true to some degree. DC, MD, and VA have always had a shared culture of sorts, and have always been connected since colonization (and probably well prior). That connectivity didn't disappear when Northeasterners decided it was okay to include Maryland in the Northern Social Club. It's always been doubly idiotic to think that, whatever culture people think Maryland has or how it was impacted or expanded, the same effects weren't taking place in Virginia...

There is plenty of variability between MD and VA but we're talking literally 400+ years of association. Anyone who thinks said association dissipated with redefined social regions, probably knows neither state that well...

Mid-Atlantic culture as it was considered in 1820 is not considered the same today. The urban areas of Virginia far and away (literally it isn't close) exemplify the modern application of what Mid-Atlantic means today more than anywhere in New York...which today, means the transitional area on the East Coast with a mixture of two regional cultures, centered on the DC-Baltimore metropolis, including adjacent regions of similar cultural ties...

Nobody gives a damn what Mid-Atlantic meant in 1939 lol...especially not Northeasterners, who hold no modern emotional connection towards the designation...

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

Literally next to no one considers New York the Mid-Atlantic anymore lol. New Yorkers don't even identify as such. You're about a century late...

Otherwise, point taken, I just wanted to remind you!

Originally Posted by murksiderock

Nobody gives a damn what Mid-Atlantic meant in 1939 lol...especially not Northeasterners, who hold no modern emotional connection towards the designation...

Well... not entirely true.

That we were Mid Atlantic was drilled into my head in school. Several Long Islanders consider themselves Mid Atlantic.

If you asked me, a real, actual, living and breathing New Yorker no less, I'd also tell you I was.

The reason it isn't spoken of much is because not a whole about NY state is ever really spoken about. As often as it comes up in the media, it's always NYC. Anything else about the state never gets much attention, and the population here starts to get a bit isolationist about regional identity (AKA bitter towards the rest of America).

I feel like people keep trying to kick NY out of everything, or prevent it from ever being associated.

New England doesn't want us, the Mid Atlantic doesn't want us, the Midwest doesn't want us, Appalachia doesn't want us, the great lakes don't want us...

No wonder some people feel like NY is like a separate country.

It's all some kind of ignorance about NY if you ask me. Including from some of its own residents.

[murksiderock]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

Well... not entirely true.

That we were Mid Atlantic was drilled into my head in school. Several Long Islanders consider themselves Mid Atlantic.

If you asked me, a real, actual, living and breathing New Yorker no less, I'd also tell you I was.

The reason it isn't spoken of much is because not a whole about NY state is ever really spoken about. As often as it comes up in the media, it's always NYC. Anything else about the state never gets much attention, and the population here starts to get a bit isolationist about regional identity (AKA bitter towards the rest of America).

I feel like people keep trying to kick NY out of everything, or prevent it from ever being associated.

New England doesn't want us, the Mid Atlantic doesn't want us, the Midwest doesn't want us, Appalachia doesn't want us, the great lakes don't want us...

No wonder some people feel like NY is like a separate country.

It's all some kind of ignorance about NY if you ask me. Including from some of its own residents.

I think what you say has validity, but we'll agree to disagree. I'm sure there are NYers floating around who believe they are Mid-Atlantic. But I never saw them, nowhere in NYS. So I'll agree to disagree...

NY is a unique state, it can't be kicked out of anything. Geographical identity changes with time, it's literally happened in other regions around this great country as well. To me it's just the nature of life, societal norms and trends change...

[the resident09]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

Literally next to no one considers New York the Mid-Atlantic anymore lol. New Yorkers don't even identify as such. You're about a century late...

Otherwise, point taken, I just wanted to remind you!

The epicenter of the mid-Atlantic is the Cheseapeake Bay region spanning west of the Bay in both MD and VA, and the DelMarVa peninsula, along with SE PA and a good portion of New Jersey. NYC and NYS begin something different from mid-Atlantic.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

I think what you say has validity, but we'll agree to disagree. I'm sure there are NYers floating around who believe they are Mid-Atlantic. But I never saw them, nowhere in NYS. So I'll agree to disagree...

NY is a unique state, it can't be kicked out of anything. Geographical identity changes with time, it's literally happened in other regions around this great country as well. To me it's just the nature of life, societal norms and trends change...

Well I didn't get it drilled into my head when I was in school alone, I'm sure.

I agree that geographical identity can change, but not based strictly on anecdotal evidence. I get what you mean, but if NY isn't Mid Atlantic then neither is the vast majority of PA or northern NJ.

I suppose I should conduct a random ask campaign around my home town. "Is NY part of the Mid Atlantic", as answered by real people from NY. I mean, I wouldn't have a way to prove it, but I can at least say it happened.

[mwalker96]

Originally Posted by the resident09

The epicenter of the mid-Atlantic is the Cheseapeake Bay region spanning west of the Bay in both MD and VA, and the DelMarVa peninsula, along with SE PA and a good portion of New Jersey. NYC and NYS begin something different from mid-Atlantic.

The mid-Atlantic is a funky religion to define, it was originally the original middle colonies of the US but Maryland got added to the midst and VA is too cosomoplotion and urban to be southern despite being the former capital of confederacy. North Carolina is very cosomoplotion but unapologetically southern at the same time while parts of VA at least of the Nova and Rva to some extent is very apprehensive about being called southern.

[murksiderock]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

Well I didn't get it drilled into my head when I was in school alone, I'm sure.

I agree that geographical identity can change, but not based strictly on anecdotal evidence. I get what you mean, but if NY isn't Mid Atlantic then neither is the vast majority of PA or northern NJ.

I suppose I should conduct a random ask campaign around my home town. "Is NY part of the Mid Atlantic", as answered by real people from NY. I mean, I wouldn't have a way to prove it, but I can at least say it happened.

You're being dramatic, you and I have had these conversations before. You don't have to conduct anything, I lived in your home region and have family there. I didn't go to school there, so I won't speak to that, but I lived there as an adult and have adult remembrances and experiences of regional identity of the natives...

[mwalker96]

How I define the mid-Atlantic region is anything East of Ohio, North of Richmond, South of New England and west of the Alantic. I know West Virginia is debated on what region it belongs to since it goes as far north as NYC and as far south as the Southern VA. To me West Virginia is very similar to the mid-Atlantic because it's so much gray area in being north or south because of it being right at the heart of applicha. It's too far west to be east coast, too far, too far east to be midwestern, too far north to be southern, and too far south to be northern. I think calling WV mid-alantic isn't far-fetched when consider that it was a part of VA up until 1863 and fought on the Union side during the civil war. I know modern day WV leans more southern but I'm pretty sure if more people knew how far WV goes than more people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss MD and VA from the south since NYC is the quintessential northeast.