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Old 11-05-2015, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Richmond, Virginia
150 posts, read 151,232 times
Reputation: 119

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Hi!

I was just wondering. The Mid-Atlantic states are considered a "subregion of the Northeast- as in "Northeast and Mid-Atlantic" But they are not considered a sub region of the Southeast states.


But I find this is a problem- especially for Virginia which is the Southern end of the Mid Atlantic. And our culture is undeniably Southern.

I live in Central Virginia and we have more in common with people in GA and TN than we do people from Boston or NYC, or even Baltimore!

People from the Northeast have accents and drink unsweet tea.

Shouldn't there be a new sub region of the U.S or "Upper South"- for those that live South of D.C. but not in the Deep South?

Even far as to say- the Mid Atlantic states are not really like the Northeast. I have been to the Northeast and its like a different world to me. Also, if Virginia is considered Mid-Atlantic, then why is Kentucky not considered "Midwest'- when it is directly across from Virginia?

What do y'all think?
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
561 posts, read 538,499 times
Reputation: 1061
I would have to say the Mid-Atlantic is what it is. The census may consider it a sub-region of the NE, but in reality, common parlance has it centered on an entirely different set of states that basically encircle the Chesapeake Bay. And today, it is describing that culture, with DC and Baltimore perhaps as the focal points. So I would argue that it does overlap the edge of the Upper South and edge of the Northeast like a Venn Diagram. To be fair, this modern definition was never a technical one and for many the old definition of NY, NJ and PA is outdated because of cultural, social changes and recognizing that there are some historical reasons as well.

And I don't think you can generalize your own region so broadly. I.e., I also live in Central VA, I only ever order unsweetened tea (and ask for sugars on the side), and to hear a southern accent I feel I must go to the northern or far southwestern exurbs to find it. Don't get me wrong, Virginia is a southern state, but it is Mid-Atlantic precisely because it mixes some of the architectural, urban, cultural dynamics of places further north with some of the cultural elements of the south, which is typical for the states and cities surrounding the Chesapeake.

Haha, and honestly, I'd disagree that I should have more in common with folks in GA, particularly my relatives there or even in North Carolina (which is a state similar to VA in many ways) who I don't frequently see anyway, than the ones who I see more often in DC, PA and even NY. But I also went to school in NY, so I this could just be my personal perspective.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:57 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,217 posts, read 17,948,587 times
Reputation: 14655
North Mid-Atlantic: New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania.

South Mid-Atlantic: Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia.


There's a subtle cultural gradient at work across the Mid-Atlantic as well. New York is a cross between the New England states and Pennsylvania. New Jersey is a cross between New York and Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is a cross between New York and Maryland. Delaware is a cross between Pennsylvania and Maryland. Maryland is a cross between Pennsylvania and Virginia. West Virginia is a cross between Pennsylvania, Virginia and Kentucky. Virginia is a cross between Maryland and North Carolina.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:48 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,226 posts, read 19,525,937 times
Reputation: 12969
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvabread22 View Post
Hi!

I was just wondering. The Mid-Atlantic states are considered a "subregion of the Northeast- as in "Northeast and Mid-Atlantic" But they are not considered a sub region of the Southeast states.
Since you're a new poster here, I'm just letting you know that this has been one of the most discussed topics on c-d.

I recommend doing a search, since there is probably nothing about this topic that hasn't been covered at great length many times already. Everyone should have their answer by now.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,295 posts, read 1,647,912 times
Reputation: 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquest1 View Post
I would have to say the Mid-Atlantic is what it is. The census may consider it a sub-region of the NE, but in reality, common parlance has it centered on an entirely different set of states that basically encircle the Chesapeake Bay. And today, it is describing that culture, with DC and Baltimore perhaps as the focal points. So I would argue that it does overlap the edge of the Upper South and edge of the Northeast like a Venn Diagram. To be fair, this modern definition was never a technical one and for many the old definition of NY, NJ and PA is outdated because of cultural, social changes and recognizing that there are some historical reasons as well.
I agree. The problem is that "Mid-Atlantic" has so many different definitions. As you mention, the Census definition of Mid-Atlantic doesn't even include MD, DC, and VA- as everyone knows, they're Southern states in the Census. Like you mentioned, these states are considered by most people to be the epicenter of the Mid-Atlantic.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Richmond, Virginia
150 posts, read 151,232 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
I agree. The problem is that "Mid-Atlantic" has so many different definitions. As you mention, the Census definition of Mid-Atlantic doesn't even include MD, DC, and VA- as everyone knows, they're Southern states in the Census. Like you mentioned, these states are considered by most people to be the epicenter of the Mid-Atlantic.
I find the opposite to be true. Most maps lump Virginia into the Northeast or Mid Atlantic. While most people believe Virginia to be The South. Virginia is Southern culturally, historically, and politically. That is why most people consider it a Southern state and not "Mid Atlantic". It is the northern most Southern state.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Richmond, Virginia
150 posts, read 151,232 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi View Post
North Mid-Atlantic: New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania.

South Mid-Atlantic: Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia.


There's a subtle cultural gradient at work across the Mid-Atlantic as well. New York is a cross between the New England states and Pennsylvania. New Jersey is a cross between New York and Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is a cross between New York and Maryland. Delaware is a cross between Pennsylvania and Maryland. Maryland is a cross between Pennsylvania and Virginia. West Virginia is a cross between Pennsylvania, Virginia and Kentucky. Virginia is a cross between Maryland and North Carolina.
Some people even include North Carolina as Mid-Atlantic. And years ago- Virginia was almost never included! I know NOVA has become a separate state. To me, I just don't think Virginia fits in very well with the Northeast culture in general. My family is all dye-in-the-wool Southern. For this reason, I always say Virginia is part of the "Upper South" along with Kentucky, but there are no maps to illustrate the distinct cultural variations.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Richmond, Virginia
150 posts, read 151,232 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquest1 View Post
I would have to say the Mid-Atlantic is what it is. The census may consider it a sub-region of the NE, but in reality, common parlance has it centered on an entirely different set of states that basically encircle the Chesapeake Bay. And today, it is describing that culture, with DC and Baltimore perhaps as the focal points. So I would argue that it does overlap the edge of the Upper South and edge of the Northeast like a Venn Diagram. To be fair, this modern definition was never a technical one and for many the old definition of NY, NJ and PA is outdated because of cultural, social changes and recognizing that there are some historical reasons as well.

And I don't think you can generalize your own region so broadly. I.e., I also live in Central VA, I only ever order unsweetened tea (and ask for sugars on the side), and to hear a southern accent I feel I must go to the northern or far southwestern exurbs to find it. Don't get me wrong, Virginia is a southern state, but it is Mid-Atlantic precisely because it mixes some of the architectural, urban, cultural dynamics of places further north with some of the cultural elements of the south, which is typical for the states and cities surrounding the Chesapeake.

Haha, and honestly, I'd disagree that I should have more in common with folks in GA, particularly my relatives there or even in North Carolina (which is a state similar to VA in many ways) who I don't frequently see anyway, than the ones who I see more often in DC, PA and even NY. But I also went to school in NY, so I this could just be my personal perspective.
You're trying to make Richmond seem less southern than it is. I never said we were like the Deep South. But me personally- I would feel more "at home' with someone from Georgia, The Carolinas, etc. More in common with those people than I would a Yankee from NJ. Regardless of geographical differences. And unsweet tea with a side of sugar packets? Yikes!
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:24 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,997 posts, read 3,450,579 times
Reputation: 2438
The modern day dividing line of North/South if created would be the Potomac River no doubt, however that does not mean Virginia isn't mid-Atlantic because it is. IMO the mid-Atlantic stretches down from New Jersey all the way through Virginia beach. Every little stepping stone in between is a different level of mid-Atlantic as it intensifies the further north you go.

Leaving New Jersey when you cross the bridge going South into Delaware towards Baltimore/DC you immediately see the Chesapeake Bay signs for MD, DE, and VA tidewater areas. Anything Chesapeake Bay related is mid-Atlantic, it's all a part of a broader "sub-region" than most make it out to be, despite the differences that say Virginia may have with the northern most states in the sub-region. Virginia can keep all of its "upper south" traits and still be VERY mid-Atlantic.

Last edited by the resident09; 11-05-2015 at 11:35 PM..
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Old 11-06-2015, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,511 posts, read 2,969,673 times
Reputation: 2737
As a Delawarean, just gonna throw it out there, since these threads always head in this direction anyway, that Delaware is NOT Southern. Only one of our counties is up for debate (Sussex), and even that has problematic definitions (anything east of 13 is wealthy and politically very liberal, not traits indicative of the general South). The rest of the state outside Sussex/lower Kent is solidly urban/suburban, with New Castle County essentially being an extension of SE PA in demographics and culture. Definitely a Mid-Atlantic state, but "blended" with the rest of the Northeast at about 75%.
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