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Old 11-17-2015, 07:50 AM
 
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So the US can be Broken into 3 main regions when it comes to Local Governance
1) New England-These states have weak to non-existent county Governments, where all power not vested in the State Government lies with Towns and Cities, only Maine has unincorporated areas.
2) Mid-Atlantic +Eastern Midwest- These areas has Towns and Townships that overlap cover Counties that have a Government but certain services are done by Towns and Townships.
3) The South/West: Strong Counties with a full government and large population that live in no town where Counties do most civil services outside of town limits.
Which do you think is the best way?
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:08 AM
 
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In today's globalized world I'd say the South/West have it the easiest/best. Those cities can annex to grow their tax bases, and have more unified regional visions and master planning.

The Midwest and Northeast are the worst. All of those redundant layers of micro-governments come with redundant salaries and policies that cost huge overhead. On top of that it requires the cooperation of way to many cities/townships to progress forward and compete against peer metros. It creates artificially small cities (see Hartford CT locked in at 17.3 sq mi 125k people but with an almost million person urban area.) Under the worst circumstances they stint the region as a whole from competing and growing.

Example: There are 146 separate governing entities in metropolitan Detroit. In the 1970s when Detroit's struggles started accelerating the suburbs politically walled themselves off from the core city, and started functioning independent from the core city. The result was an even faster decline of the city while suburbs absorbed all the wealth, power and tax structure from Detroit. Now the area as a 4.5million person metro is decades behinds it's peers in regional identity, and things like transportation infrastructure. If the state of Michigan hadn't created prohibitive laws making it all but impossible for Detroit to annex and merge with surrounding communities the conversations we have about it right now would be vastly different. (That's also not considering the state of Michigan's extraordinary and glorious history of not being able to get out of it's own way.)

There is no need for townships and micro forms of government anymore, they simply retard progress. They haven't made sense since it stopped being a days horse ride to the county seat.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
In today's globalized world I'd say the South/West have it the easiest/best. Those cities can annex to grow their tax bases, and have more unified regional visions and master planning.

The Midwest and Northeast are the worst. All of those redundant layers of micro-governments come with redundant salaries and policies that cost huge overhead. On top of that it requires the cooperation of way to many cities/townships to progress forward and compete against peer metros. It creates artificially small cities (see Hartford CT locked in at 17.3 sq mi 125k people but with an almost million person urban area.) Under the worst circumstances they stint the region as a whole from competing and growing.

Example: There are 146 separate governing entities in metropolitan Detroit. In the 1970s when Detroit's struggles started accelerating the suburbs politically walled themselves off from the core city, and started functioning independent from the core city. The result was an even faster decline of the city while suburbs absorbed all the wealth, power and tax structure from Detroit. Now the area as a 4.5million person metro is decades behinds it's peers in regional identity, and things like transportation infrastructure. If the state of Michigan hadn't created prohibitive laws making it all but impossible for Detroit to annex and merge with surrounding communities the conversations we have about it right now would be vastly different. (That's also not considering the state of Michigan's extraordinary and glorious history of not being able to get out of it's own way.)

There is no need for townships and micro forms of government anymore, they simply retard progress. They haven't made sense since it stopped being a days horse ride to the county seat.
New England actually has the least levels of Government
1) Town
2) State
3) Federal
Places like NY have
1) Town
2) Townshio
3) County
4) State
5) Federal
New England States have no Redundant governments, there is fewer levels of Government it CT or MA than NY or KY.
It may be balkanized, but not redundant.
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
There is no need for townships and micro forms of government anymore, they simply retard progress. They haven't made sense since it stopped being a days horse ride to the county seat.
Enter New Jersey. 46 sq mile Hudson county has 12 municipalities, with cities the size of 0.2 sq miles. Must be nice when your building super is also a city mayor...

Mayor of East Newark rules 0.102 sq miles of land.... lmao.

Not even gonna talk about the clusterf*** that is Long Island.
One of the best things to come out during NYC consolidation is that they got rid of all these local extra government layers, including counties.

Last edited by Gantz; 11-18-2015 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:50 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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New England towns are more efficient than having counties + local municipalities. But the units can be too small for regional cooperation and empower local NIMBYs
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Old 11-18-2015, 11:11 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,130 posts, read 9,901,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Enter New Jersey. 46 sq mile Hudson county has 12 municipalities, with cities the size of 0.2 sq miles. Must be nice when your building super is also a city mayor...

Mayor of East Newark rules 0.102 sq miles of land.... lmao.

Not even gonna talk about the clusterf*** that is Long Island.
One of the best things to come out during NYC consolidation is that they got rid of all these local extra government layers, including counties.
Actually that is one of the WORST things that came out of NYC consolidation. You essentially at best have a very remote local government. As a former Queens resident, I greatly prefer the clusterf*** as you say of Long Island, over the lack of local government and accountability you have in Brooklyn.
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Old 11-20-2015, 01:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Actually that is one of the WORST things that came out of NYC consolidation. You essentially at best have a very remote local government. As a former Queens resident, I greatly prefer the clusterf*** as you say of Long Island, over the lack of local government and accountability you have in Brooklyn.
That is something that I think is a draw back of County Government, for example, Suffolk County NY has 1.4 Million, Nassau County has 1.4 million, West Chester County has about 1 million.
With governments covering that huge an area providing services like Fire Departments or Police, DPW etc, projects that are important to your area very well could be put on hold because someone who live 50 miles away doesn't care.
On a town level where everyone lives within say 6 miles of each other or so, things that need to be done are done because it effects everyone under that government.
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:58 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
That is something that I think is a draw back of County Government, for example, Suffolk County NY has 1.4 Million, Nassau County has 1.4 million, West Chester County has about 1 million.
With governments covering that huge an area providing services like Fire Departments or Police, DPW etc, projects that are important to your area very well could be put on hold because someone who live 50 miles away doesn't care.
On a town level where everyone lives within say 6 miles of each other or so, things that need to be done are done because it effects everyone under that government.
I hear you but New York State is probably not really a great example of what your saying. New York is complicated to say the least. That is because most local functions are handled by cities and towns in New York, not the county. I live in Suffolk County for example but Babylon handles the land zoning, the garbage pickup and the snow removal etc. here in Babylon.

New York State only approved "charter counties" (NY counties with additional home rule powers) around WW2. Suffolk applied and became a charter county in 1960. But Suffolk Towns still decide their local affairs. For example, 5 of the 10 Suffolk towns have voluntarily joined the Suffolk County Police while the other 5 still have their own Town police. There are no doubt similar situations like that all over New York State.
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