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View Poll Results: Legacy cities or non legacy
Legacy city 67 69.07%
Non legacy city 21 21.65%
No preference 9 9.28%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-23-2017, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
292 posts, read 284,552 times
Reputation: 322

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
You obviously know nothing about DC and other healthy legacy cities if you think they only have "a few" modern buildings. DC, NYC, Chicago, etc. clearly have much more architectural variety than the likes of Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, etc. Either one knows little about the architectural legacy of these cities or is extremely biased to say otherwise.
I didn't say they had a few. I'm not saying Houston only has a few historic buildings either.

I'm saying the majority of buildings in Houston are modern and the majority of buildings in legacy cities are older.
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Old 04-23-2017, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
292 posts, read 284,552 times
Reputation: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
It s just too bad Houston did not SAVE MORE OF OLD HOUSTON. It had finally is getting what is left SAVED? Well more then was the Raze and let stand attitude or just for parking.

The thing is ASIAN cities do FAR MORE INTERESTING NEW buildings then US cities today. Much of HOUSTON especially. The basic BOC as cheapest to build still rules. Ironically, a city like Dubai has much of its buildings with American Architects. They can do more then a glass box there.

Their tallest building in the world has the same Architecture Firm as 3 of Chicago's super-talks. The 1968 John Hancock building, 1974's Sears (Willis) Tower and 2009's Trump Tower. The Trump Tower has aspects like the tallest Big brother with the same parents as it is in Dubai.

So a Houston NOT saving more of OLD HOUSTON. Has Asian cities leaving it in the DUST IN NEW ARCHITECTURE that Houston thought would make it into a MODERN METROPOLIS in its core. So far it falls short in new architecture even over some Legacy cities in what they build.
I agree but I like the way Houston did it better.
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:39 PM
 
3,219 posts, read 1,548,768 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double L View Post
I agree but I like the way Houston did it better.
Just curious how?

- is street-level mere vibrant in Houston
- stand out modern architecture that avoids fortress-like or simple glass-box variations
- does Houston have a vibrant retail street that can stand up to others?
- parks that are utilized and landscaped that the city builds and maintains in its core especially

We know Houston is a irk in progress. But it has to keep fixing pas mistakes and still struggles with big successes yet.

There are pictures of a Dubai to Singapore that really showcase buildings to Parks that we just would love a Houston to have too or any US city. But few will say Houston is doing better then many other US cities. Including others in Texas.

But surely post the better then most others you feel it is building and has today. This goes beyond the growth stars and GDP.
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
292 posts, read 284,552 times
Reputation: 322
Sure.

The streets are not more vibrant but improving. Downtown Houston has been going through a residential skyscraper boom since 2013 and it's really changing things. I was there a few weeks ago and was impressed by how many people I saw.

I love the architecture in Houston, always have. The Williams Tower, 1500 Louisiana, Wells Fargo Plaza. Pennzoil Place was voted the best building built in the 70s. I invited a friend from North Carolina over, she loved how modern everything was too.

Houston has great retail, especially in the Galleria.

Parks are among my favorite things about Houston. Hermann Park is very large and is next the museum district. Memorial Park is as big as Central Park in New York by square miles. Discovery Green is probably closest to what you are asking for, simply because it is located downtown. You will see a lot of people at Discovery Green, both on weekdays and weekends.

Houston is my favorite city in Texas. Dallas is too uncosmopolitan and not as diverse as Houston. Austin is too small for my tastes and San Antonio is too poor, the majority of that city is run down ghettos.


I agree with you on Asian cities, I love them and wish we could have something like that in America but I know we never will.
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:34 PM
 
3,219 posts, read 1,548,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double L View Post
Sure.

The streets are not more vibrant but improving. Downtown Houston has been going through a residential skyscraper boom since 2013 and it's really changing things. I was there a few weeks ago and was impressed by how many people I saw.

I love the architecture in Houston, always have. The Williams Tower, 1500 Louisiana, Wells Fargo Plaza. Pennzoil Place was voted the best building built in the 70s. I invited a friend from North Carolina over, she loved how modern everything was too.

Houston has great retail, especially in the Galleria.

Parks are among my favorite things about Houston. Hermann Park is very large and is next the museum district. Memorial Park is as big as Central Park in New York by square miles. Discovery Green is probably closest to what you are asking for, simply because it is located downtown. You will see a lot of people at Discovery Green, both on weekdays and weekends.

Houston is my favorite city in Texas. Dallas is too uncosmopolitan and not as diverse as Houston. Austin is too small for my tastes and San Antonio is too poor, the majority of that city is run down ghettos.

I agree with you on Asian cities, I love them and wish we could have something like that in America but I know we never will.
Isn't the Galleria in Uptown? You forget how many people do not even leave the Tunnel network in downtown Houston. I will add Yet.

Immigrants are not what makes Downtown or Uptown. They should complement each other, but it's the distance that prevents it. I would differ on Dallas. Immigrant numbers alone do not make a city Cosmopolitan. It's their ethnic flavor MUST BE PREVELENT TOO... . Dallas has a vibrancy that still is in the making as Houston. But Houston neither is way over it or better t this point. Sorry.

Houston especially is finding I needs to RE-INVENT itself from past mistakes. Getting live-in residents to downtown can only help. But street-level vibrancy still competes with the Tunnels. Weather most of summer is no help. Winter doesn't help northern cities. But in summers some embrace their outdoors and cores open up to outdoor dining to roof-top wine-bars with food.

Winter also does not prevent shopping in cities with Core street retail shopping left. But we are in a era -- if a city DOESN'T have a vibrant shopping street created already today? It is a uphill battle now to gin one.

So far Main Street downtown is a work in progress -- with a very limited success. The pond in its center is a total failure some flowers finally but still not a it down take a break option. Some buildings facing it re a old wall even. New skyscrapers getting built. Still it seems -- NOT REQUIRED (that would be zoning) to place retail to eateries street-level? Not to isn't helping. In fact, the most vibrant block is where more of Old Houston is left. Proves more older Houston saved would have benefited downtown over bland parking decks.

Some say oh, the old lost really wasn't much? Well the new looks nice in the distance and looking up. But not adding vibrancy to a core we still want for Houston and every American city.

As for shopping. Dallas malls probably could give Houston's like the Galleria some competition? I'm not familiar with the park you mention. I think once you know what other cities offer especially in their downtowns? You realize that it's a complete package that makes them. So far Houston does not. If it PLANNED BETTER it would have. Just limiting HUGE BLOCK SIZE parking garages and not requiring something street-level and preventing them on downtowns Main corridors would have helped.

Houston constantly seems to find It ----> failed in planning better. Yet still is limited with no zoning and developers can build what they please. It can't get worse. Infill in the inner loop to in-town residents downtown in high-rises? Can only help. But in Architecture.... Houston is nor even doing better then old Legacy cities and not even the Seattle's and Austin's. Forget with even comparing to the new Chicago is getting. Though it even is getting simpler glass towers. But some still totally stand-out to keep the city's contribution ongoing.

If Houston can't do better then a Chicago? Whose core is booming still. Then conceding Houston will never be close to building what some Asian cities are gaining? That isn't what the city was suppose to become. It WAS along with Dallas. To be Ultra-modern examples to the nation and world. Guess it is FAIL but average in why I gets still is superior in high growth.
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
292 posts, read 284,552 times
Reputation: 322
So this isn't about architecture for you. That post was all negative about Houston but had nothing to do with what we talked about. This isn't a discussion about architecture for you, you just don't like Houston. I don't choose to be pessimistic about our cities. From personal experience, Houston is my favorite city in America. Your personality is different and you don't like it but I do. You could cherry pick problems and positives for each city but is that really worth it?

Relax and enjoy Houstons positives. It has a lot of them.
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:18 PM
 
3,219 posts, read 1,548,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double L View Post
So this isn't about architecture for you. That post was all negative about Houston but had nothing to do with what we talked about. This isn't a discussion about architecture for you, you just don't like Houston. I don't choose to be pessimistic about our cities. From personal experience, Houston is my favorite city in America. Your personality is different and you don't like it but I do. You could cherry pick problems and positives for each city but is that really worth it?

Relax and enjoy Houstons positives. It has a lot of them.
Well you didn't give me the examples to see? Pictures or merely street-views. Are what convinces. Sure when it comes to skyscrapers? Architecture matters. But I'd still say what's there when completed at street-level.... that is VERY important in improving a core.

Houston has growth to get it better. It does not yet seem to place planning and zoning (to guide its re-building) to steer developers on the kind of city it wants to become. It can't restore a vibrant past that was tore down or were simpler ranch homes. It can only re-do what wasn't done right in the first place. Or just add more to available space still plentiful in even parts of the inner loop.

I would hope gaining more full streets with curbing would be a plan. When I see brand new infill and total blocks of new developments. Then they keep the ditch.... and ugly power-line poles in fronts (just something I hate to see by a new home)? I know the city isn't going to change it. But hopes the developers will.

It comes down to past mistakes too costly for the city alone.

Old Houston with its ditches.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7996...7i13312!8i6656

Ditch examples with new blocks of infill

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7961...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.8077...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.8088...7i13312!8i6656

Some streets are complete or do get completed with new infill.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.8067...7i13312!8i6656

^^^ Nice green street here. Plenty of foliage and COMPLETED STREETS and NO UGLY POWER-LINE POLES.
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:52 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
6,562 posts, read 3,659,218 times
Reputation: 12333
I like progressive legacy cities that respect and preserve their history through proper and effective land use/zoning and adaptive re-use. Most of these cities have dozens of modern buildings mixed in the fabric of the city. There is an interesting thread of nostalgia in several cities where old style baseball stadiums were newly constructed after they pulled down more modern structures.
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
292 posts, read 284,552 times
Reputation: 322
Well this whole conversation was about the fact I like newer buildings so saying they need more historical preservation is mute. What Houston does have however is that they categorize both historical buildings and also categorize historical neighborhoods that can't get torn down. That google street view of the heights I showed a few pages back I believe is a historic neighborhood and will be preserved.

Houston needs ditches because of its natural environment. We flood very easy here. That is also a prime reason why we don't have a subway.

Houston may not have the best shopping in the world or even the state but that doesn't bother me. We have great shopping here. It doesn't have to be the best. That's nitpicking to me.

My cosmopolitan comment concerning Dallas goes beyond diversity. Dallas is behind on fashion. A much more southern city, you will find a lot more southern cowboys in that part of Texas. Houston has hip neighborhoods like Montrose, a lot of influence in hip hop. More variety of food and restaurants than Dallas.

Check out the parks I mentioned you're missing out on a lot of Houstons neighborhoods and development if you haven't seen them and the neighborhoods they are in yet.
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Old 04-23-2017, 07:48 PM
 
29,910 posts, read 27,355,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double L View Post
I didn't say they had a few. I'm not saying Houston only has a few historic buildings either.

I'm saying the majority of buildings in Houston are modern and the majority of buildings in legacy cities are older.
These were your exact words:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double L View Post
DC is mostly older buildings though with a few modern ones.
The majority of buildings in the healthiest legacy cities are older, but on average they have more modern buildings than non-legacy cities have older buildings.

And to be clear, "modern" starts at the post-war/midcentury era, at least for me.
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