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View Poll Results: Should PR become a state?
Yes 64 44.44%
No 61 42.36%
Maybe 19 13.19%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-07-2015, 01:13 AM
 
Location: The Borderlands
196 posts, read 128,446 times
Reputation: 388

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It's hard to break that line of thinking that our ancestors had. Conquering and controlling a population but keeping it at a nice, clean distance so you don't get any dirt on you. Maybe paying them a pittance but not really helping them just to make it look good. Beads for bread. Let's go ahead and make all of our territories states and not abandon them as used up trash. I think they've paid their dues. If Puerto Rico is still poor it's certainly not because we've lifted them up with our gracious help. Same for Guam. Guam is a dump off post. We use their resources and land and pass out food stamps but it's a whole island of people with out a lot of choices either. What is manufactured there? Hell, what's manufactured here anymore?

No body is saying let's become the United States of Mexico or Canadamerica. We're talking about a couple of tiny islands that we assumed responsibility for in trade for allowing us to use them. American money is all ready being pumped into those places. Why not marry the cow all ready?
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:16 AM
 
699 posts, read 439,523 times
Reputation: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eascoaswing View Post
It's hard to break that line of thinking that our ancestors had. Conquering and controlling a population but keeping it at a nice, clean distance so you don't get any dirt on you. Maybe paying them a pittance but not really helping them just to make it look good. Beads for bread. Let's go ahead and make all of our territories states and not abandon them as used up trash. I think they've paid their dues. If Puerto Rico is still poor it's certainly not because we've lifted them up with our gracious help. Same for Guam. Guam is a dump off post. We use their resources and land and pass out food stamps but it's a whole island of people with out a lot of choices either. What is manufactured there? Hell, what's manufactured here anymore?

No body is saying let's become the United States of Mexico or Canadamerica. We're talking about a couple of tiny islands that we assumed responsibility for in trade for allowing us to use them. American money is all ready being pumped into those places. Why not marry the cow all ready?
Do Puerto Ricans want to become a state? It's not helping them [become a state] if they don't, in fact it's hurting them. From my experience with Puerto Rico, they love their status. They get to preserve their island's culture and if they ever so choose to go to the USA for more money, easy enough they are already American citizens.

If Puerto Rico was her own country, it would have one of the highest GDP per capita's in the Caribbean.
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Old 12-07-2015, 02:09 PM
 
Location: The Springs
1,770 posts, read 2,137,928 times
Reputation: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by kehkou View Post
The United States of America. Ever been to northern NM or southern CO? English is insufficient there; even Mexican Spanish is alien there.

I thought PR voted to become a state. What ever happened to that?
I went to college for 4 years in the San Luis Valley of Southern CO. I never had a need to learn or speak a word of Spanish. In fact, many Hispanics in The Valley can't speak it either.
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Old 12-07-2015, 02:23 PM
 
2,925 posts, read 3,049,035 times
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No to Statehood, it shouldn't even be a Territory, give it away !!
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:57 PM
 
512 posts, read 376,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
It would be good for Mexicans to learn English because it would put them in touch with the entire North/Western Hemisphere (except Quebec). Something that is sensible seeing as their neighbors who share a long border to the north already speak English along with 100s of millions of others.

Really, it's no different, is it? The reasons for Americans to learn Spanish are no more compelling than the reasons for Mexicans to learn English. So if you advocate for the United States to become a bilingual country, I assume you would do the same for Mexico? (And yes, I am very well aware that plenty of people in Mexico speak English . . . just like plenty of people in the United States speak Spanish.)






I am really not interested in how Puerto Rican statehood would benefit Puerto Rico, but rather how Puerto Rican statehood would benefit the United States. And I just don't see the benefit to us. Indeed, the points made above are the reasons why I am opposed to Puerto Rico becoming a state. Simply put, they are not like us. Their history, their language, their culture, their traditions, their national heroes, their way of life has little to nothing in common with ours. They are, in essence, a foreign country. How is it of any possible benefit to the United States -- whose motto is E Pluribus Unum -- to willingly graft a culturally and linguistically foreign country into our Union? (Not to mention, how will it help us to take on a place that's so desperately poor, relatively speaking?)

Honestly, I don't really see how it benefits us to even have them as a territory. It seems to me that they ought to be independent; or it not, then they should become a territory of a country with a similar culture and language. But the United States is not that country.
First, I completely agree that Mexicans should learn English. And yes for the exact reasons that Americans should learn Spanish. Finally someone to agree with. I simply think that more communication is better. The entire Western Hemisphere is only 3 languages, (large languages not small ones) so I would like to see better cooperation since I believe this represents an opportunity.

Second, I think that Puerto Rico should either elect to fully become a state or leave. Why? I think that all people should seek to have an equal space at the bargaining table. Being a territory always leaves you with a lower status, the child in the room. However why do I prefer stay as opposed to leaving? I just like Puerto Ricans. I personally prefer people closer rather than farther apart, so that is my biggest reason. I would prefer to have a relationship with Puerto Rico where we can still visit each other's countries. I don't like the way that people treat outsiders (tariffs, visas etc.) However if you don't take that approach then they still have value to offer to Americans economically and culturally. Economically they will be able to work jobs that enable Americans to have lower prices. They also would bring with them beautiful women, more food, dance etc.

Far too often people buy into this idea that we cannot have poorer people because we have to give them a boat-load of welfare. That is untrue and unlikely to happen anyway. If anything America probably has a smaller welfare state because we have diversity and keeping us diverse will only keep that true. Anyone ever notice that big welfare-states are also homogenous ethnically/culturally?

I know that economics is the biggest leap for the average person, but I don't think it would harm Americans, I think it would actually help us. Just as having essentially a billion Chinese low wage workers making our shoes gives us one of the highest standards of living in the world.
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Old 12-08-2015, 01:58 AM
 
Location: The Borderlands
196 posts, read 128,446 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by miami_winter_breeze View Post
Do Puerto Ricans want to become a state? It's not helping them [become a state] if they don't, in fact it's hurting them. From my experience with Puerto Rico, they love their status. They get to preserve their island's culture and if they ever so choose to go to the USA for more money, easy enough they are already American citizens.

If Puerto Rico was her own country, it would have one of the highest GDP per capita's in the Caribbean.
It wasn't asked if Puerto Rico wanted to become a state. I voted yes based on how I feel about including them as an actual state in the union.. I love all my PR friends who all happen to live north of Florida.

And GDP's can take a leap. You know who that matters to? The people who created GDP's. I deal in people, not acronyms.
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Old 12-08-2015, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,659 posts, read 3,643,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicist027 View Post
However if you don't take that approach then they still have value to offer to Americans economically and culturally. Economically they will be able to work jobs that enable Americans to have lower prices. They also would bring with them beautiful women, more food, dance etc.
I don't know how it works for a territory, but if Puerto Rico were to become a state, they would be subject to all the federal minimum-wage laws, OSHA requirements, environmental impact laws, and all the other regulations that cause the cost of American manufacturing to rise above most of the rest of the world. Their "cheap" labor wouldn't be any cheaper than any other state's. In fact, statehood might cause their employment to fall, as products that are manufactured there now might be moved to lower-cost locales.

As for the beautiful women, they can enter our country the same way everyone else does (or is supposed to), by obtaining passports and meeting the requirements for entry. Or, remember that the planes run in both directions; you would surely be welcome to spend your vacations there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicist027 View Post
If anything America probably has a smaller welfare state because we have diversity and keeping us diverse will only keep that true. Anyone ever notice that big welfare-states are also homogenous ethnically/culturally?
I'm not seeing how diversity correlates with the size of the welfare state. Could you expand upon that please?
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Old 12-08-2015, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Nashville TN
4,925 posts, read 4,914,922 times
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I would be cool with it and I wish Cuba could be part of the USA as well but we give PR and Cubans better chances to succeed in the states than Mexicans.
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
706 posts, read 513,327 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kar54 View Post
I went to college for 4 years in the San Luis Valley of Southern CO. I never had a need to learn or speak a word of Spanish. In fact, many Hispanics in The Valley can't speak it either.
That's just sad. I guess NM is the last stronghold for that distinct variety of Spanish, the only one unique to the USA.
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Old 12-08-2015, 04:34 PM
 
512 posts, read 376,879 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
I don't know how it works for a territory, but if Puerto Rico were to become a state, they would be subject to all the federal minimum-wage laws, OSHA requirements, environmental impact laws, and all the other regulations that cause the cost of American manufacturing to rise above most of the rest of the world. Their "cheap" labor wouldn't be any cheaper than any other state's. In fact, statehood might cause their employment to fall, as products that are manufactured there now might be moved to lower-cost locales.
First of all, they are already subject to federal minimum-wage laws. It is likely one of the reasons that they are bankrupt. I mentioned this in my first post that I think that having them would generally mean that things would have to change. With their involvement it would make it extremely difficult to raise the minimum wage because of politics. When people make the minimum-wage kills jobs argument, it would have much more potency if you could point to a state full of poorer people who it would very likely do so. Second, inflation is constantly lowering the minimum wage so it will continue to get lower, and hopefully low enough so that Puerto Rican's can all find jobs. America would have to liberalize its markets in order to accommodate for a poorer state. I think that trend would be good for not only them but the nation as a whole.


Quote:
As for the beautiful women, they can enter our country the same way everyone else does (or is supposed to), by obtaining passports and meeting the requirements for entry. Or, remember that the planes run in both directions; you would surely be welcome to spend your vacations there.
Why should we go through passport & visa nonsense when we don't need to? There is no danger or problem with PR now, why do it? That is just adding a cost that we don't need between the two of us. I think we should make it easy to travel and restrictions should be had only with valid reasons, not the other way around. Make it easy for the beauties.


Quote:
I'm not seeing how diversity correlates with the size of the welfare state. Could you expand upon that please?
Diversity usually is a killer for welfare states. Why? Because people don't like helping others as much as they purport to in politics. Whenever a politician stands up and says, "We need to help people!" People say (or think to themselves), "Which people? Not my kind! My kind gives all of the stuff! It's their kind that's getting all of the stuff! We always have to pay for their stuff!" And so people generally don't want to give to outsiders.

Once again, notice that all of the big welfare states are extremely homogenous. That homogeneity probably makes them more inclined to give benefits because they are simply willing to help people with the same history and identity. Once some immigrants get in, all of the sudden all of them start sounding like republicans and libertarians calling for less benefits. If you close the border on immigration, it is MORE likely that the welfare state will go bigger. Ever notice that even democrats don't like immigration. Even Bernie Sanders doesn't like it and he is their hero. Why? Because for leftists, immigration is a barrier to building up the welfare state.
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