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Old 12-01-2015, 03:18 PM
 
75 posts, read 132,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Rather than cast aspersions on all of those shops and restaurants (and those that frequent them) have you ever considered that should we collectively decide that shunning them would collapse the economy and put a lot of people out of work...and very likely a place to live? Like it or not we're a capitalistic society, and the system in place more or less keeps most of us afloat. I would suggest taking some time to reflect regarding your consumerism issues and consider others if possible.
Not trying to cast aspersions, rather, I thought it might be an interesting topic of discussion Also notice I said "we", because I shop around those shops and restaurants too!

And of course we are a capitalistic society. Wanted to hear people's thoughts on this regarding places/downtowns more focused on activities other than consumption, spending, etc and if certain cities give off more of that vibe than others (for example, Time Square). Have a good day!

Last edited by wander_x; 12-01-2015 at 03:49 PM..
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:12 PM
 
Location: PHX -> ATL
6,311 posts, read 6,806,003 times
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I think a third-world city would qualify for this maybe as many of the residents would be poorer and not be able to afford such things all the time, thus unable to support the stores.

Even second-world cities tend to operate around consumerism. I spent some time in Kuching, Malaysia; a high-density city near the Indonesia border on Borneo. Near the coast of Kuching, somewhat detached from Kuching's main center further inland, was the same high-density suburb (partly because it was hilly in this area) but all the people within this particular neighborhood of Kuching shopped at one market for their food and groceries and other main necessities. This market sat right on the coast and the development of this particular area made a ring around this market, with the high density NYC-style stores on bottom apartments on top structure then moving to boathouses and other SFH structures on the fringes. All public transport systems in the area had a stop at this market and the nearby mosque a few blocks away and I remember learning from the locals that all the businesses there would advertise at the market because it saw the most traffic, and that businesses closest to the market also got the most foot traffic so there was a high desire to be close to it. So even though a market, in which this market in particular acted more as a grocery store, this entire area of the city seemed to wrap around this.

The entity of Kuching itself outside of that particular suburb seemed to have emphasis on consumerism much smaller than what I see here in the States, even though the country of Malaysia does fairly well economically. But Kuala Lumpur had even more consumerism from what I was able to see (only spent a day there). So I think in order to find a place with little emphasis on consumerism I think we would need to locate a place that is:

a) economically disadvantaged;
b) not the most populous place in the country (in some very disadvantaged countries the stores locate to the best location to support business and sometimes poorer towns or villages the people will sometimes go twenty plus miles to visit these stores and support the consumerism of this city but not their own making consumerism for these stores larger than what it seems because technically it is supporting more than one city's worth of people);
c) not an important location of trade where products are easily accessible; and
d) locals are generally self-sufficient i.e. grow their own food, make tools by hand with local materials, etc.
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Old 12-02-2015, 07:02 PM
 
75 posts, read 132,067 times
Reputation: 87
:-D, thanks for your reply, really cool insight.

I'm wondering if there are any thoughts on a place like Celebration, FL in relation to this topic. I just read an interesting article about it, and it seems to fit so many criteria for being either the ultimate place to be removed from consumerism, shopping malls, sprawl and still live in a populated area or (much more often) as an entirely artificial city.

The article is written by Kelsey Campbell on Gizmodo and has two interesting quotes:

"In Celebration, rows of homes organized into "villages" cluster around a compact downtown, filled with civic buildings designed by some of the most famous architects in the world. You could buy an apartment for $100,000 and live in the same neighborhood as a guy who had bought one for $600,000. You could, in theory, walk to work (though few residents did). It had a great school. You could do all your shopping without driving and send your kids to a park down the street to play."

"And it is, by most accounts, a pretty good place to live: Public spaces, walkable streets, downscaled housing, and good schools, all within a compact downtown. Even its critics have to admit that it's better than swampy, sprawling hellscape that lies just outside of it, dripping with strip malls and sweaty drive-thrus."

Yet the consensus is that this town is "creepy" and artificial. But couldn't so many city downtowns centered around spending money at shopping malls or suburbs of gated communities be seen as an artificial? I'm not sure I just find all of this interesting, especially around the holiday season (Black Friday, etc).
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Northern Illinois
451 posts, read 465,099 times
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People who transplant to big cities are often more snobby and constantly trying to assert their cultural superiority over people in the suburbs and country. Go downtown and you will find more careerist/consumerist people (indulgence in over-priced apts/condos/lofts, novelties, eating out, etc.) who can be a bit selfish with their time and lack genuineness. If you live in their neighborhood, they'll be easier to befriend, if you live in the suburbs or a different city neighborhood, they might act snobby towards you and their urban hangouts will appear cliquish.


Suburbs have a lot of self-righteous people who are also more selfish with their time, get isolated because of the isolating nature of the suburbs, are consumerist in a different way (big box stores, financial savings, cars, houses, etc.) and while they have closer family ties, they can be harder to befriend or break into their social circles. A lot of them will be more likely to be natives and some will appear to be somewhat in a bubble surrounded by their stuff, harder to get off the couch just to go out and socialize and do something different.


I would say, dollar for dollar, suburban dwellers are probably bigger spenders/investers, but they also invest in appreciable stuff like a nice house. Urban dwellers spend a lot on nick-nack toys and other stuff that depreciates. Urbanites are more competitive people, which makes them more energetic and interesting, but also less friendly.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:38 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,549 posts, read 28,630,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
More affluent areas of either tend to be materialistic.
This is true. People who have money (especially if it's new) tend to be materialistic the world over.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:39 AM
 
9,868 posts, read 7,691,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDF View Post
Interesting subject here. I definitely agree that cities can be less materialistic. In my experience, people in suburbs are easily convinced to buy more things.

That has more to do with suburban residents tending to have children living with them (and I use the term to include 20-somethings, 30-somethings, and those children's children). Kids exert tremendous pressure on each other to "fit in", as manifested by clothing and toy choices, and they exert even more force when pushing parents to buy things.

Let's not forget the child substitutes, errr, dogs, both urban and suburban, that "need" zillions of toys.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:42 AM
 
14,012 posts, read 14,995,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
Suburbs are more materialistic since they encourage buying crap like expensive cars, swimming pools, and loading your backyard with expensive things to show off. City life is more about experience though, that's why people choose to live in such tiny apartments, they don't care if they have an expensive car or not, all that matters is living life to the fullest each day, they know your accomplishments shouldnt be measured by the amount of Lamborghinis you have in your garage or the volume of your swimming pool
Lamborghinis? even multiple? have you ever been to a suburb? Do you think they're full of Bill Gate's?
Most people move to suburbs to avoid poor quality urban public schools, not to drive their Ferraris and Lamborghinis.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,549 posts, read 28,630,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
City life is more about experience though, that's why people choose to live in such tiny apartments, they don't care if they have an expensive car or not, all that matters is living life to the fullest each day, they know your accomplishments shouldnt be measured by the amount of Lamborghinis you have in your garage or the volume of your swimming pool
The rich folks in Manhattan would rather spend their money on $100 million apartments than on measly little lamborghinis or swimming pools. Actually, they most likely have those other things somewhere else too.
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Old 12-05-2015, 09:27 AM
 
6,350 posts, read 11,582,370 times
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There are several boutique type shops in my mid-size city but they are patronized by shoppers from throughout the metro as a sort of "shoppertainment". People view going downtown as an experience and shopping can be part of it.

Some downtown dwellers may be snobby, but many like living downtown because it gives a sense of community. No yard work and no worry about DUI after you visit a bar.
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:22 AM
Status: "81 Years, NOT 91 Felonies" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,596,781 times
Reputation: 5696
Like everything else....it depends on which metropolitan area you're talking about. Even for smaller metros city/suburb is a simplistic division. You really have to look at it on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis.

Still, speaking of Dallas, Memphis, and Jackson MS, and probably most of "Middle America" in general -- I would say "Yes", superficially the "hipster-friendliest" areas at least are more vocally anti-materialistic than the "it" middle-to-upper-middle-class suburbs* to live in - at least by their rhetoric, if not totally in practice (though the "rhetorical climate", so to speak, is its own kind of truthfulness). The wealthier areas of the central city close to downtown do tend to have no shortage of materialism in any case. The suburbs - at least the "it" places just mentioned - I definitely see as more brash about consumerism. In that sense the "rhetorical climate" at least IS more promoting of material acquisitions.

*All-american "soccer mom" or mid-level business managers and accountants type places, schools with the highest test scores, and you know the rest
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