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Hate to bring up this debate, but actually according to the Census itself, MD is Southern.
I know that. But it's Northeastern in reality. The Census definitions were fixed a century ago, when Maryland was a southern backwater. The Census doesn't adjust its regions over time, regardless of cultural/economic changes.
Nowadays, it's just another Northeast Corridor states, and more like Mass or NJ than like TN or KY.
Interesting that half of the New England states lost population, even if rather small numbers. I know they are just estimates, though.
The rural Northeast is not doing so well. It's the urban Northeast that has all the population growth.
You have NY State growing by 50-60k annually, but NYC is growing by 60-70k annually. Do the math. Oh, and the suburban counties of downstate NY State are generally growing too, so obviously Upstate has some decline.
In NJ, the urban Northern NJ counties (Hudson, Bergen, Essex) are generally growing, but more rural South Jersey is stagnant or declining.
In CT the NYC suburbs are growing (Fairfield and New Haven Counties), the rest of the state is declining.
In Mass basically 100% of growth is in the Boston area.
So the Northeastern U.S. is basically an urban/rural divide, one doing very well, and the other doing quite poorly.
I think there's also a second home phenomenon that might be influencing population decline. I know multiple people who have bought second homes in Delaware County, NY, and it is a huge place for weekenders from NYC, but the old-time locals seem to be selling and moving on. So the county is doing reasonably well, but the population numbers are down because the homes are being bought by nonresidents. You also see this phenomenon in Cape Cod, the Catskills, the Poconos, the Berkshires, parts of the Hudson Valley, etc.
People are more reproductive in the midwest than they are back east and that leads to some population growth. Birthing more babies isn't the same as getting folks to move there.
No, the problem with upstate is that you have the same taxes as NYC.... without having the amenities and jobs of NYC.
NYS income tax rate is 4-8.82%...and the upstate cities enacted the same local sales tax rates as NYC... you guys are freaking crazy. Oh, and your property taxes are like 50% more of what people pay in e.g. Minnesota.
Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
The rural Northeast is not doing so well. It's the urban Northeast that has all the population growth.
You have NY State growing by 50-60k annually, but NYC is growing by 60-70k annually. Do the math. Oh, and the suburban counties of downstate NY State are generally growing too, so obviously Upstate has some decline.
In NJ, the urban Northern NJ counties (Hudson, Bergen, Essex) are generally growing, but more rural South Jersey is stagnant or declining.
In CT the NYC suburbs are growing (Fairfield and New Haven Counties), the rest of the state is declining.
In Mass basically 100% of growth is in the Boston area.
So the Northeastern U.S. is basically an urban/rural divide, one doing very well, and the other doing quite poorly.
I think there's also a second home phenomenon that might be influencing population decline. I know multiple people who have bought second homes in Delaware County, NY, and it is a huge place for weekenders from NYC, but the old-time locals seem to be selling and moving on. So the county is doing reasonably well, but the population numbers are down because the homes are being bought by nonresidents. You also see this phenomenon in Cape Cod, the Catskills, the Poconos, the Berkshires, parts of the Hudson Valley, etc.
Not necessarily. The fastest growing portion of Delaware ("Southern by Census definitions but Northeastern in reality/most other definitions) is actually Sussex County, Delaware aka "Slower Lower". This is really the only part of the state that is up for debate as Southern, and is the geographically largest and most rural of the three counties. Granted, a lot of that growth may be influenced by the more "urban" beach resorts located nearby, but the county is still largely rural/suburban in character, even the beach towns.
Ocean County and Gloucester in South Jersey also posted small growth. And Southern Pennsylvania (Cumberland, Lancaster, and Lebanon counties) also posted growth. Lancaster, Cumberland and Lebanon, while part of the Harrisburg and Lancaster metros, aren't the most urban of counties when compared to the rest of the NE corridor. So I'm not sure we can easily categorize the Northeast as just a rural/urban divide when it comes to growth.
The Midwest is desirable for many people...hence the large population in states that are more rural than those in the east. The COL isn't off the charts, and people are able to live a nice life. Sixty-seven million people is pretty substantial, so please don't be so dismissive of those who chose to live there.
Actually, I'm not being dismissive of those who live there. I'm just wondering how every state in the Midwest could be losing more people from their state than they are getting back. That's hard to do.
Usually, you'd have suburban overflow from border cities to cause a state like Indiana to get enough overflowing surburbanites from the Cincinnati and Chicago metros to gain domestic migrants. Or Missouri would get residents from their Illinois neighbors or whatnot.
No, the problem with upstate is that you have the same taxes as NYC.... without having the amenities and jobs of NYC.
NYS income tax rate is 4-8.82%...and the upstate cities enacted the same local sales tax rates as NYC... you guys are freaking crazy. Oh, and your property taxes are like 50% more of what people pay in e.g. Minnesota.
Key word is rates, as the COL is still much lower in Upstate NY and while property taxes may be higher than MN, the home prices are lower in terms of median home prices.
Minnesota's income tax rates go from 5.35-9.855%. Here's some more info: Widgets Magazine
Not just those. New York state is also in a big slump and would be posting negative numbers if not for NYC and its environs padding the state numbers.
Since the last census, upstate probably lost upwards of half a million people...
Where did you get that from? I'm somewhat leery, as estimates before the last census were off in regards to Upstate NY as well. Some areas grew, while some declined between 2000-2010.
It's got me stumped. Maybe they should have a combined regional push to attract residents rather than just individual state promotions.
It'll never happen. No state in this region gives a damn if their neighbor is doing well if they aren't doing well themselves. States like Minnesota or North Dakota doing well does not bring regional pride to Springfield, IL.
The best that could happen is having a state government that supports its urban areas and metro areas that work with each other instead of against each other, like Minneapolis. Instead, however, what we have are suburbs cannibalizing cities (St. Louis/Detroit), state governments that couldn't give a rat's ass about their major cities (St. Louis/Kansas City), cities cannibalizing their suburbs and other parts of the state for jobs and company relocations (Chicago), etc.
Maryland is a Northeastern state, and quite similar to Mass. Tennessee, yeah, completely different from Mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
I know that. But it's Northeastern in reality. The Census definitions were fixed a century ago, when Maryland was a southern backwater. The Census doesn't adjust its regions over time, regardless of cultural/economic changes.
Nowadays, it's just another Northeast Corridor states, and more like Mass or NJ than like TN or KY.
The term you're looking for is "Mid-Atlantic" state.
It'll never happen. No state in this region gives a damn if their neighbor is doing well if they aren't doing well themselves. States like Minnesota or North Dakota doing well does not bring regional pride to Springfield, IL.
The best that could happen is having a state government that supports its urban areas and metro areas that work with each other instead of against each other, like Minneapolis. Instead, however, what we have are suburbs cannibalizing cities (St. Louis/Detroit), state governments that couldn't give a rat's ass about their major cities (St. Louis/Kansas City), cities cannibalizing their suburbs and other parts of the state for jobs and company relocations (Chicago), etc.
Perhaps Midwestern state and local governments could have hotel and rental car tax holidays. Correlate it with state sales tax holidays. That would encourage people to visit and some of the visitors may choose to move there.
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