How far east/west does the Rust Belt extend? (how much, house)

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by CHIP72

I wouldn't include the Lehigh Valley (Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton area) in the Rust Belt because it is closely tied into the economies of New York and Philadelphia, especially the former.

The eastern edge of the Rust Belt, at least in Pennsylvania, are the areas north and west of the Blue Mountain, the first ridge in the Ridge and Valley section of the Appalachian Mountains. By this definition places like Allentown, Reading, and Harrisburg are close to but excluded from the Rust Belt, while the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area would be included. (The SWB area actually declined much earlier than most other places in the Rust Belt, in the 1950's and actually even before WWII, as the anthracite coal industry, the once-dominant industry in the region, declined significantly in importance.) In New York state, I think Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, and Binghamton would all qualify as Rust Belt cities, along with Buffalo.

And at the last stop sing before the first ridge. . . I mean, good heavens! That is pretty concrete for something that was cooked up by the media. I was just preparing to say that anything devised by the media instead of say, the census bureau (for example) is a little undefined. IMO, Bethlehem should definitely be included b/c of its steel industry.

[Tom Lennox 70]

Interesting perspectives....don't know about the Chicago suburbs, but I left out nearby cities like Gary, Indiana and Benton Harbor, Michigan. Baltimore did have a few steel mills but my definition is simply the regions of the Northeast and the Great Lakes rapidly losing population to the Sunbelt. I've also heard that the term rust belt came from how because it snows so much in the region, cars get rusty because of the salt. For me, weather is a major part of the Rust Belt feel, a place that's grey and cold.

True, Baltimore has a lot of high-tech now but its not Silicon Valley or the new Sunbelt cities. The city is heavily crime-ridden and the air of hopelessness remains, along with its residents' lack of faith in their future. While in a Sunbelt city like Charlotte or Atlanta or Las Vegas/Phoenix, everything feels flashy and brand new. When you go to Baltimore and Philadelphia, everything's falling apart, houses are boarded up, buildings are crumbling and abandoned, everything is tattered.

[Tom Lennox 70]

The links were all very interesting, especially those pictures of the ruined factories in Pennsylvania. And I thought Baltimore was bad. I can't imagine what all those workers went through. Ironically today, Japanese automakers are building plants in the U.S. My new Honda Civic was assembled near Knoxville, Tennessee by American workers.

So it looks like most of the Rust Belt's decline was about industry. But isn't it also true about the weather being a factor? Because it seems every single fast-growing American city is located in places with short winters and plenty of sunshine and people have included weather as a reason for their moving to Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, Texas, and especially Florida and California.

[Tom Lennox 70]

I know that competiton from Japan and to a lesser extent Germany and South Korea caused a lot of damage to the auto industry, but what about steel? Even now I can't really name any foreign countries famous for their steel industry so where did the competition come from? Was it Mexico? I know back then it coudln't have been China though China right now obviously is America's biggest competitor in terms of manufacturing.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

I know that competiton from Japan and to a lesser extent Germany and South Korea caused a lot of damage to the auto industry, but what about steel? Even now I can't really name any foreign countries famous for their steel industry so where did the competition come from? Was it Mexico? I know back then it coudln't have been China though China right now obviously is America's biggest competitor in terms of manufacturing.

Japan and then China became major steel manufacturers. It was a combination of several factors that caused the decline of the domestic steel industry. Foreign competition was only part of it. Domestic contributions include an ever-tightening regulatory environment and concessions to the labor unions that eventually made U.S. companies uncompetitive. Lastly, manufacturing employment has been in secular decline across the world, even as manufacturing output has climbed, because of increased mechanization and automation of manufacturing processes.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by CHIP72

I wouldn't include the Lehigh Valley (Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton area) in the Rust Belt because it is closely tied into the economies of New York and Philadelphia, especially the former.

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Really? Listen to Billy Joel's song "Allentown" sometime.

Originally Posted by CHIP72

Dude, I GREW UP about 15 miles from Allentown. I know what it's like there. That song was also written in 1982, which was 26 years ago.

Yeah.... and 26 years ago is when the Rust Belt really started to become the Rust Belt. The term wasn't exactly coined yesterday. "Allentown" could have been about Pittsburgh, Toledo, Akron, Gary, Cleveland, or any other Rust Belt town. Even though song is putatively about the city of Allentown, the truth is that city was an allegory for what was happening in the entire manufacturing belt and how it came to be the Rust Belt. Lehigh Valley's fortunes were heavily tied to the steel industry; it is a quintessential Rust Belt region.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by toughguy

A city is not considered "rust-belt" just because of urban decay and declining population. Rust belt cities were once-thriving cities that fell into decline because of a collapse of manufacturing industries, which were typically the main economic driver of the city/region. Philly has a pretty diverse economy, and doesn't rely solely on heavy industry to thrive.

Well, St. Louis definitely was a city of manufacturing industries, so it is definitely part of the rust belt.

[jonjj]

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

Interesting perspectives....don't know about the Chicago suburbs, but I left out nearby cities like Gary, Indiana and Benton Harbor, Michigan. Baltimore did have a few steel mills but my definition is simply the regions of the Northeast and the Great Lakes rapidly losing population to the Sunbelt. I've also heard that the term rust belt came from how because it snows so much in the region, cars get rusty because of the salt. For me, weather is a major part of the Rust Belt feel, a place that's grey and cold.

True, Baltimore has a lot of high-tech now but its not Silicon Valley or the new Sunbelt cities. The city is heavily crime-ridden and the air of hopelessness remains, along with its residents' lack of faith in their future. While in a Sunbelt city like Charlotte or Atlanta or Las Vegas/Phoenix, everything feels flashy and brand new. When you go to Baltimore and Philadelphia, everything's falling apart, houses are boarded up, buildings are crumbling and abandoned, everything is tattered.

You know, your generalizations about Baltimore amaze me. Baltimore is an old city and many neighborhoods and the homes in them are at least 100 years old or older. It also has a history of poverty that goes way before there even was a rust belt. It has sections that need improvement, have crime, and poverty. But it also has some of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the state and huge neighborhoods along with a downtown that have been gentrified. If you want to live in Disneyland, go there. But try to be more accurate in your assumptions.

[MomMom]

Originally Posted by jonjj

You know, your generalizations about Baltimore amaze me. Baltimore is an old city and many neighborhoods and the homes in them are at least 100 years old or older. It also has a history of poverty that goes way before there even was a rust belt. It has sections that need improvement, have crime, and poverty. But it also has some of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the state and huge neighborhoods along with a downtown that have been gentrified. If you want to live in Disneyland, go there. But try to be more accurate in your assumptions.

There ya go, the same opinion exists elsewhere on these forums...and it doesn't just apply to Baltimore, either.

[CHIP72]

Originally Posted by Drover

Yeah.... and 26 years ago is when the Rust Belt really started to become the Rust Belt. The term wasn't exactly coined yesterday. "Allentown" could have been about Pittsburgh, Toledo, Akron, Gary, Cleveland, or any other Rust Belt town. Even though song is putatively about the city of Allentown, the truth is that city was an allegory for what was happening in the entire manufacturing belt and how it came to be the Rust Belt. Lehigh Valley's fortunes were heavily tied to the steel industry; it is a quintessential Rust Belt region.

The Rust Belt started becoming the "Rust Belt" in the 1960's, not the early 1980's.

The Lehigh Valley's fortunes AT ONE TIME were tied to industries like Bethlehem Steel and Mack Trucks. However, over the last 25 years the region has become a significant health care hub, and specialized higher tech corporations like Air Products are based there. Equally important, as places have become more and more connected due to transportation and technology, the Lehigh Valley became more and more connected with the New York area especially and the Philadelphia area to a lesser extent. It is tied to their healthier economies (with NYC's economy obviously being better than Philly's, though Philly's is in good shape relative to much/most of the U.S.). Housing values in the Lehigh Valley have grown on the order of 50% in this decade, among the very highest in Pennsylvania; like the nearby Poconos to the north, a lot of ex-NYC/north Jersey residents have moved to the Lehigh Valley in recent years.

Does the above mean the cities of Allentown, Bethlehem, and Easton don't have problems? Of course not, but show me a city that isn't a "young" city that doesn't have problems somewhere in its borders. Believe me, when I went from growing up in the Lehigh Valley to going to college in rural central and western PA, THAT was a culture shock for me because those areas weren't nearly as well off and truly were in Rust Belt areas.

I find it amazing that people who never lived or even spent time in an area would think they would know more about an area than a person who lived in or near an area for an extended period of time.