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Old 01-26-2016, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Chi 'burbs=>Tucson=>Naperville=>Chicago
2,176 posts, read 1,801,839 times
Reputation: 2925

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
The populated centers of Iowa from Des Moines to the east and to the north have far more in common culturally, religiously and politically with Wisconsin and Minnesota than they ever do with Indiana or downstate Illinois.
I wasn't using culture as my main measuring stick. I was going with climate and topography, with a little culture as a tiebreaker maybe.

I frankly thing lumping a place like Nebraska or North Dakota with a place like Indiana or Ohio and calling them both Midwestern states is ridiculous.

When someone says, I'm from the midwest, I think of 7 states, generally (MINN, IOWA, WIS, IL, MICH, IND, OHIO).

Nobody is talking about Oklahoma - to me, Kansas, Oklahoma and Nebraska should be considered in the same region. And not the midwest.

I do realize the plains states are lumped in with midwest often when trying to keep the total # of groups small, but there really should be two groups. Should be 8 distinct regions

1) Northeast (ME, VT, NH, RI, CT, NY, MA, NJ)
2) Mid Atlantic (VA, NC, MD, DE)
3) South (KY, TN, LA, AR, AL, MS, GA, FL, SC)
4) Midwest (MN, IA, WI, IL, MI, IN, OH)
5) Great Plains (ND, SD, KS, NE, OK)
6) Southwest (AZ, NM, TX)
7) Mountain West (ID, NV, MT, WY, CO, UT)
8) Pacific (CA, OR, WA)

that's 45

Not included - AK, HI (up to 47)

Debatable states = MO,PA,WV (50) - no idea where these three go
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,839,174 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmanshouse View Post
I wasn't using culture as my main measuring stick. I was going with climate and topography, with a little culture as a tiebreaker maybe.

I frankly thing lumping a place like Nebraska or North Dakota with a place like Indiana or Ohio and calling them both Midwestern states is ridiculous.

When someone says, I'm from the midwest, I think of 7 states, generally (MINN, IOWA, WIS, IL, MICH, IND, OHIO).

Nobody is talking about Oklahoma - to me, Kansas, Oklahoma and Nebraska should be considered in the same region. And not the midwest.

I do realize the plains states are lumped in with midwest often when trying to keep the total # of groups small, but there really should be two groups. Should be 8 distinct regions

1) Northeast (ME, VT, NH, RI, CT, NY, MA, NJ)
2) Mid Atlantic (VA, NC, MD, DE)
3) South (KY, TN, LA, AR, AL, MS, GA, FL, SC)
4) Midwest (MN, IA, WI, IL, MI, IN, OH)
5) Great Plains (ND, SD, KS, NE, OK)
6) Southwest (AZ, NM, TX)
7) Mountain West (ID, NV, MT, WY, CO, UT)
8) Pacific (CA, OR, WA)

that's 45

Not included - AK, HI (up to 47)

Debatable states = MO,PA,WV (50) - no idea where these three go
Pennsylvania is without a doubt Northeastern. Missouri is Midwestern. West Virginia is Southern. Oklahoma is not a Plains state but a Southern state. I have to disagree about Plains states not being Midwestern. They share the same culture and linguistics as the Midwest states to the east of them. I also disagree about grouping in Texas with New Mexico and Arizona. Texas shares far more in common culturally linguistically and demographically with the South.
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,412 posts, read 5,084,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Pennsylvania is without a doubt Northeastern. Missouri is Midwestern. West Virginia is Southern. Oklahoma is not a Plains state but a Southern state. I have to disagree about Plains states not being Midwestern. They share the same culture and linguistics as the Midwest states to the east of them. I also disagree about grouping in Texas with New Mexico and Arizona. Texas shares far more in common culturally linguistically and demographically with the South.
These are all your opinions. Do you have any sources or evidence to support them?
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,839,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
These are all your opinions. Do you have any sources or evidence to support them?
The Census Bureau for starters. I have linguistics maps. I have demographics maps. So yes I've got evidence to support my opinions.
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,412 posts, read 5,084,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
The Census Bureau for starters. I have linguistics maps. I have demographics maps. So yes I've got evidence to support my opinions.
Can you post links, or references?
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,839,174 times
Reputation: 846
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...ap/NatMap2.GIF

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...p-blogSpan.jpg

Both show that most of Missouri has the same dialect and demographics as other Midwestern states and show Pennsylvania can be grouped in with the Northeast albeit having a large German population along with western New York and Maryland. It also shows Texas belongs in the South at least linguistically.
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Raleigh-Durham NC
902 posts, read 1,092,870 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyFries View Post
My version is

Lower Midwest: Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri

Upper Midwest: Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota

Great Plains: North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Kansas
looks accurate except possibly SD not being great plains

the granite mountains and black hills just don't seem very "plainsie"
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Tippecanoe County, Indiana
26,374 posts, read 46,217,550 times
Reputation: 19454
Quote:
Originally Posted by azsportpilot View Post
looks accurate except possibly SD not being great plains

the granite mountains and black hills just don't seem very "plainsie"
The western US starts about 100 W longitude as any eastern agriculture (that isn't irrigated) is not possible there at all. Population densities are generally far less along and west of this line, having no commonality with the rural areas of the Midwest that have higher population densities within their rural counties. Dryland farming and ranching combined with energy development is common in this region as well.
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Chi 'burbs=>Tucson=>Naperville=>Chicago
2,176 posts, read 1,801,839 times
Reputation: 2925
Yeah Texas is kind of in a league by itself. If you remove it from the SW region, there really isn't a SW region though. I'd just move AZ and NM into Mountain West and remove Southwest as a region entirely.
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,412 posts, read 5,084,360 times
Reputation: 3081
Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...ap/NatMap2.GIF

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...p-blogSpan.jpg

Both show that most of Missouri has the same dialect and demographics as other Midwestern states and show Pennsylvania can be grouped in with the Northeast albeit having a large German population along with western New York and Maryland. It also shows Texas belongs in the South at least linguistically.
Those two maps are what you base every single one of your assertions on, however you're grossly oversimplifying the complexity of regional identity. Accents and ancestry are not the only factors that determine regional identity. Religion, culture, and history are other big factors that don't necessarily correspond to linguistic and ancestral lines. The fact that Missouri is the only majority Baptist state in the midwest should tell you that it has qualities that identify it more with the South than the Midwest.
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