Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
6. Upstate cities have far less attachment to New England. There are no ferries or short trips to Connecticut from Rochester. In fact many upstate cities are more attached to Pennsylvania or Canada in terms of proximity, traveling working population and cultural/familial ties.
Eastern upstate New York seems pretty linked to New England though. And Yankees from New England settled in the area and influenced the culture significantly.
Quote:
7. FAR less Italians. While upstate cities do have their Italian populations it is minuscule compared to NYC, and most of those families are from NYC one or two generations back.
I would actually say that the Italian presence is something the NYC area and Upstate have in common. Places like Rochester and Utica are quite Italian. Though it's true that downstate Italians are the largest white ethnic group and upstate Irish and German ancestry rivals Italian ancestry in numbers.
I'm guessing in borderline counties like Dutchess (exurban NYC) NY Italian transplants probably outnumber the long established Italian American population. But it wouldn't be the case further upstate.
Eastern upstate New York seems pretty linked to New England though. And Yankees from New England settled in the area and influenced the culture significantly.
I would actually say that the Italian presence is something the NYC area and Upstate have in common. Places like Rochester and Utica are quite Italian. Though it's true that downstate Italians are the largest white ethnic group and upstate Irish and German ancestry rivals Italian ancestry in numbers.
I'm guessing in borderline counties like Dutchess (exurban NYC) NY Italian transplants probably outnumber the long established Italian American population. But it wouldn't be the case further upstate.
You mean what is different about most cities upstate from NYC?
Well several things.
1. Accents. This one should be obvious.
2. Politics, upstate cities save for Ithaca do not tend to be as overwhelmingly liberal as NYC.
3. Awareness of the outside world. NYC is extremely caught up about NYC and in love with NYC and all about NYC and its favorite subject; NYC.
4. Less multi-cultural. Upstate cities have nothing on the immense variety of foreigners in NYC.
5. More similarities with middle America. You can find your average American Joe in most of upstate NY and its cities. NYC is full of people who utterly reek of NYC.
6. Upstate cities have far less attachment to New England. There are no ferries or short trips to Connecticut from Rochester. In fact many upstate cities are more attached to Pennsylvania or Canada in terms of proximity, traveling working population and cultural/familial ties.
7. FAR less Italians. While upstate cities do have their Italian populations it is minuscule compared to NYC, and most of those families are from NYC one or two generations back.
8. Economy. Several upstate cities are not as wealthy as NYC. Yes, NYC has its poor but the city itself is not struggling. Rochester, Buffalo, Binghamton, Elmira... these are all cities with serious problems on a government level that NYC does not contend with these days. Including infrastructural problems due to funding issues.
9. Crime. Arguably upstate cities tend to be more dangerous than NYC in modern times. Especially those with big Meth problems.
10. Climate. Let's face it, Rochester is way colder in the winter. NYC has heat waves in the summer because of its number of gigantic buildings and lack of forestry.
11. Simply the size and scope. No city upstate is as mindbogglingly massive as NYC and its neighbors. Not even remotely similar.
I'm sure I could think of more.
I'm pretty sure you have that wrong, NYC is very cosmopolitan and I would guess its residents have a better understanding of the outside world.
There are definitely Average Joe types in NYC, even if they don't dominate like in much of the country.
NYC is gets hot in the summer because of where it's located, I live in its suburbs with no big buildings and it gets just as hot.
But overall I agree NYC is much different culturally from anywhere North of say, Orange County.
Oh and one you didn't mention, public transportation. At least half of NYC residents take public transportation regularly and there is no stigma against using public transit. I have to imagine in upstate NY, the vast majority of people drive and perhaps public transit is seen as a "poor people thing".
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,540,027 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995
I'm pretty sure you have that wrong, NYC is very cosmopolitan and I would guess its residents have a better understanding of the outside world.
There are definitely Average Joe types in NYC, even if they don't dominate like in much of the country.
NYC is gets hot in the summer because of where it's located, I live in its suburbs with no big buildings and it gets just as hot.
But overall I agree NYC is much different culturally from anywhere North of say, Orange County.
Oh and one you didn't mention, public transportation. At least half of NYC residents take public transportation regularly and there is no stigma against using public transit. I have to imagine in upstate NY, the vast majority of people drive and perhaps public transit is seen as a "poor people thing".
Nah nah, that's not what I meant. I mean if you take your average fellow out of NYC and plop them basically anywhere else in the country, people will know they are from NYC. Either by accent or by mention.
You won't really find an "average plain vanilla American" in NYC unless they move there.
As far as awareness perhaps I worded it wrong. I meant regard, respect, interest... that sort of thing. NYC is still all about itself in general. I believe the term "fly-over country" was coined there. There's just an arrogance to NYC that sometimes its residents don't even realize they put forth, and it's not always meant in a rude way it's just there (like how some Texans biasedly compare things to Texas). Exceptions to the rule acknowledged; I am aware that there always are in every situation.
Up here public transit is not seen as a poor people thing so much as it just isn't widely available (unless you are a wine tourist). Plus we, like most of the rest of America, generally have far larger areas to cover for work and life's needs. Honestly public transit here might be too expensive for counties to fund efficiently enough to cover vast rural areas.
New York City is a different world from most of this country and that's fine. My point was just that very few if any upstate cities actually reflect NYC in any significant way. In that I suppose we agreed here. Albany even feels more like a New England city to me than a little NYC clone. Frankly Ithaca feels more like a tiny NYC clone if anything. Ithaca's nickname can run from "the little apple" to "a few miles of crazy surrounded by the real world".
Even Binghamton and Elmira, which have several NYC transplants, don't feel anything like NYC.
Eastern upstate New York seems pretty linked to New England though. And Yankees from New England settled in the area and influenced the culture significantly.
I would actually say that the Italian presence is something the NYC area and Upstate have in common. Places like Rochester and Utica are quite Italian. Though it's true that downstate Italians are the largest white ethnic group and upstate Irish and German ancestry rivals Italian ancestry in numbers.
I'm guessing in borderline counties like Dutchess (exurban NYC) NY Italian transplants probably outnumber the long established Italian American population. But it wouldn't be the case further upstate.
On the other hand, Upstate NY has metros with higher Italian percentages than the NYC metro. In fact, all of the major and some of the smaller Upstate NY metros have higher Italian percentages than than the NYC metro.
Also, the bigger Upstate NY cities(just the city proper) have higher Black percentages than NYC(city proper). In fact, Rochester at 42% Black, has a higher percentage than many Southern cities.
You also have very small Upstate NY cities like Amsterdam and Dunkirk that have high Hispanic percentages. In fact, Dunkirk has NY State's first Hispanic mayor.
So, I say all of this to show that some things that are associated demographically with NYC are visible and maybe even surpassed, in some aspect, in parts of Upstate NY.
Meth is really more of a small town/maybe small city issue in Upstate.
There are ferries between towns in NY and VT around Lake Champlain. There is a ferry between Cape Vincent and I believe Kingston ON Canada as well. Actually, I believe that Plattsburgh NY and Burlington VT share a TV media market.
Public transportation gets good use in the bigger cities and first ring suburbs, as well as the college towns.
There are villages across this part of the state with the stereotypical New England look. Just do a street view of Skaneateles, Cazenovia, Pittsford, Sackets Harbor, Clinton, Hamilton, Lewiston, Cooperstown, Seneca Falls, etc.
The economy will vary depending on the area and industry(health care, higher education, tech, insurance).
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-26-2016 at 06:45 AM..
If any city in Ohio stands out as being not like the others, it's Cincinnati. You'd be hard-pressed to find a native who knows or cares much about the rest of the state, or has traveled much in the state except for Columbus and maybe Hocking Hills.
Erie stands out from the rest of Pennsylvania in that it's a lake port city, all alone in the northwest corner of the state that originally was part of New York, and has much more in common with Cleveland and Buffalo.
If any city in Ohio stands out as being not like the others, it's Cincinnati. You'd be hard-pressed to find a native who knows or cares much about the rest of the state, or has traveled much in the state except for Columbus and maybe Hocking Hills.
Erie stands out from the rest of Pennsylvania in that it's a lake port city, all alone in the northwest corner of the state that originally was part of New York, and has much more in common with Cleveland and Buffalo.
People in Cincinnati say the same thing about Cleveland. From a demographic, linguistics, and historical perspective, Cleveland is more at home in Western New York than it is in Ohio. Cincinnati is more typical of Ohio than Cleveland. Where else in Ohio are there high percentages of Italians, Jews, and Puerto Ricans?
As far as your statement about "hard pressed to find a native who cares about the rest of the state", I too can provide anecdotes of Cleveland residents who just care about Cleveland. I have known many proud Ohioans who were from Cincinnati. Everyone's experience will be different, but the question is what is objective?
Cincinnati IMO is a regular Midwest city akin to Indianapolis, St. Louis, and Kansas City. Cleveland is a typical Great Lakes city and is the most Northeast influenced of the Great Lakes.
In terms of climate, both Cleveland and Cincy have their own apart from Ohio. Cleveland is definitely a snowbelt city and Cincinnat has mild winters like a lot of the Mid-Atlantic. However let's consider that Cincinnati gets 12-20 inches of snow a year, Cleveland 50-60, and Columbus 25ish. One of these things is not like the other.
Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 09-26-2016 at 07:08 AM..
As far as your statement about "hard pressed to find a native who cares about the rest of the state", I too can provide anecdotes of Cleveland residents who just care about Cleveland. I have known many proud Ohioans who were from Cincinnati.
That wasn't my experience living in the Cincinnati area for 22 years, but of course any post in this thread is going to be subjective. I'm not bashing Cincinnati -- I love the place, and hope to move back someday, but the prevailing attitude is that beyond the I-275 belt, there be dragons.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
