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The poster is ignorant about deserts and everyone here knows that besides them. Not all deserts are the same and it should be treated that way. The deserts here in the States are not the Sahara and someone brought that up. In fact New Mexico and Arizona rank very highly in biodiversity, #4 and #3 respectively out of all the states, and the Chihuahuan and Sonoran are some of the most lush and unique deserts in the world. Only behind the megastates of California and Texas, and NM and AZ rank high (in the top 5) in reptile, birds, mammals, and plant diversity. Surely it's void of life and a wasteland...
Actually according to this source the Plains states, Alaska, Hawaii, the Northeast and the Midwest are low in diversity whereas the West and the Southeast rank highly. Using this standard Hawaii (the lowest ranking state) if anything should be the one void of life and a wasteland, especially considering how high Hawaii ranks in extinct and near extinct species as well.
Besides if no one lived in the desert where would people get the copper needed for the electricity in their houses... The deserts do provide use for us and therefore not wastes.
Could you imagine if everyone thought like Bionic and only lived in the Southeast and no one lived here? The Southeast would become so crowded that the forests Bionic loves to rave about would become small and over-crowded that it would become hard to enjoy. Frankly I love that my favorite areas scenery-wise are considered "inhabitable" and "wastelands" by a lot of people, keeps the COL low and keeps the people out, who generally over-crowd the vast swaths of public land we are able to enjoy here in the Southwest. When I went hiking in Tucson Mountain Park the other day I went during the afternoon on a Thursday so I would consider that an off-peak time, yet it was crowded by snowbirds. And they all litter too. Certainly Bionic doesn't want that in their backyard...
We are all allowed to have our own opinions and voice them, hence the 1st amendment, but passing them off as fact is wrong and it is very hard to get anyone to change their opinion especially one as strong as Bionic's. That's why you have to let it go... It's just a waste of your time and oddly enough Bionic's since it's providing nothing to the thread.
People on this forum are too sensitive, always getting their feelings hurt. It's just so funny.
The biodiversity in states like AZ and NM probably aren't concentrated in the desert, more around the mountainous "sky island" areas instead.
The Southeast is the region in the CONUS with the highest biodiversity in general (particularly areas related geologically to the Appalachian Mountains, such as the Florida Panhandle). The whole region is consistently high throughout all the organism groups covered in the website linked below; you can argue that so much more has yet to be discovered, since a lot of land in the Southeast is private (unlike the West), and even stepping in such territory is off-limits, due to trespassing issues: Mapping the World's Biodiversity
I did malign the prairie quite a bit throughout this thread; in fact, I just maligned it in the post you quoted. I also happened to note that it at least had many redeeming features, unlike the desert. Maybe you need reading comprehension skills, and also some glasses/contacts as well.
Crazy how a harmless preference thread such as this went 20 pages. But it's understanding and obvious why it did. There is nothing wrong with a person liking the desert. Everybody will not like the Southeastern forests no matter how diverse it is. To each their own.
Along with biodiversity, endemism is another interesting factor in different natural areas of the US.
This map shows the nations 6 "biological hot spots" when it comes to rare species. Basically 6 areas of the CONUS where there are multiple species that cannot be found anywhere else on earth. Looks like Death Valley is one of them, but it's a desert wasteland so this site must be bunk.
Another thing that seems to get thrown around on here is that warm and wet automatically = high biodiversity. That is merely 1 factor that determines the diversity of a biome, and while overall diversity tends higher towards the equator and lesser towards to poles, there are many exceptions to this rule. It would seem at first glance that the tropics have high biodiversity because it's always warm and wet, however there are many other factors, such as:
-The fact that the tropical rainforests of the world are considered to be the oldest biomes on the planet. This resulted in uninterrupted evolution and adaptation of a variety of species over a very long period of time.
-Forests like the Amazon, the Congo, or the forests of Southeast Asia are massive. Being such a large area has allowed the opportunity for species to be geographically separated enough to adapt and evolve in their own ways, exclusive to one another. In Amazonia for example, the presence of many large rivers has created ecological "islands", which has allowed several species to adapt and evolve separate from one another.
-Humid, Warm and Predictable. This is what BIONIC is talking about, and while the southeast might be overall warm and humid, during winter it is far from predictable, as the US South (Outside of south Florida) is prone to extreme shifts in temperatures due to cold air masses from the north. Since these air masses travel thousands of miles over nothing but land, they retain the cold temperatures much better than if they were to travel over the ocean or large body of water which would moderate any extreme temperatures. The tropics also have very little variation throughout the year in regards to temps and rainfall, where the US South is more season-oriented.
Geographic diversity goes hand in hand with biodiversity as well. While a specific ecosystem in the US Coastal South may rank high in biodiversity, these areas tend to be somewhat uniform along the coast since there are no real geographic boundaries or changes in elevation to encourage differences of adaptation or evolution of native species. With that being said, the Southeast US does score very highly in diversity of reptiles, amphibians and fish, there are other areas of the US that score higher for plants, mammals, and birds, specifically the states of New Mexico, California, Oregon, and Arizona. (Texas is another one, however the study has no noted distinction of where exactly in Texas the biodiversity is considered. We all know that Texas falls under either US Southeast, or Desert in this particular debate). Kinda weird that 2 out of 4 of those states are primarily desert, huh.
Anyway, here is a few little snippets from a government website about the Sonoran Desert specifically, and it shows that not all of earths deserts are created equally.
Quote:
The Sonoran Desert has the greatest diversity of vegetative growth of any desert on Earth. At least 560 native plant species thrive in the extremely harsh conditions of drought and heat, and interact in a gamut of ecological relationships that add to the complexity of the community.
Quote:
...The Sonoran Desert is recognized as an exceptional birding area within the USA. Forty-one percent (261 of 622) of all terrestrial bird species found in the USA can be seen here during some season of the year. The Sonoran Desert, together with its eastern neighbor the Chihuahuan Desert, is the richest area in in the USA for birds, particularly hummingbirds.
Crazy how a harmless preference thread such as this went 20 pages. But it's understanding and obvious why it did. There is nothing wrong with a person liking the desert. Everybody will not like the Southeastern forests no matter how diverse it is. To each their own.
Exactly what I have been saying. Having a difference in opinion is a great thing, something I will always appreciate actually as it provides for a good conversation. It's Bionic's choice of wording that has upset other people. I think people do take it personally when you call their home a "wasteland". If Bionic chose to reword their first post about deserts in this thread, and then to not debate people about it, I promise this entire thing could have been avoided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.I.0.N.I.C.
People on this forum are too sensitive, always getting their feelings hurt. It's just so funny.
The biodiversity in states like AZ and NM probably aren't concentrated in the desert, more around the mountainous "sky island" areas instead.
The Southeast is the region in the CONUS with the highest biodiversity in general (particularly areas related geologically to the Appalachian Mountains, such as the Florida Panhandle). The whole region is consistently high throughout all the organism groups covered in the website linked below; you can argue that so much more has yet to be discovered, since a lot of land in the Southeast is private (unlike the West), and even stepping in such territory is off-limits, due to trespassing issues: Mapping the World's Biodiversity
Actually if you look at your link and look into bird, plant, mammal, etc. diversity you will find Arizona's warmest (and therefore more diverse) areas are the Southeastern part of the state by where I live. While there are sky islands in my vicinity, yes, they do not take up large areas like that believe me so it is 98% the Sonoran Desert (and the other 2% probably belonging to the 14 sky islands we have in this area).
If your sky island assumption was correct, there would be a warm-colored line of sorts, running Northwest to Southeast, from roughly the latitude of Nevada's southernmost point in Flagstaff and into New Mexico at the latitudes of Phoenix and Los Angeles (as this area is the exact same climate of the sky islands and is roughly 1/4 of the state). There would also be warm-colored dots for the sky islands that exist in Southeast Arizona like Mount Lemmon and Mount Graham, and a couple separated areas like the Eastern end of the Grand Canyon. Whereas the entire rest of the state would be blue because it's a desert climate.
From your link, quite literally what I'm describing is the map of "tree diversity" if you look at Arizona. You can see the sky islands are dotted yellow, along with the area I described in Northern Arizona, and even the East end of the Grand Canyon is somewhat yellow as well. You'll see that all the other maps contrast this one and the red areas are in SE and Central Arizona, by Tucson and Phoenix. Except for mammal diversity, which ours is not only in the desert but this mountainous green part of our state as well.
It's clear you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to the desert or even our states. Please just research it before talking about it. If you actually looked into the site you linked to and looked at a map of Arizona you would see that for yourself without any experience being here.
Crazy how a harmless preference thread such as this went 20 pages. But it's understanding and obvious why it did. There is nothing wrong with a person liking the desert. Everybody will not like the Southeastern forests no matter how diverse it is. To each their own.
Yes, people on CD get their feelings hurt quite easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeOrange
Along with biodiversity, endemism is another interesting factor in different natural areas of the US.
This map shows the nations 6 "biological hot spots" when it comes to rare species. Basically 6 areas of the CONUS where there are multiple species that cannot be found anywhere else on earth. Looks like Death Valley is one of them, but it's a desert wasteland so this site must be bunk.
1.)That link still doesn't change the fact that the Southeast is the region with the highest level of biodiversity in the US.
2.)Death Valley may have unique species, but it still doesn't mean that it is species rich.
3.)Anyways, several of the hotspot areas are in the Southeast, including FL Panhandle, and the Appalachians. Given the large amounts of private land ownership in the region, as well as lack of proper studying of the region's ecosystems, many more hotspots may exist throughout the Southeast, and we may not even now about them until it is too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeOrange
Another thing that seems to get thrown around on here is that warm and wet automatically = high biodiversity. That is merely 1 factor that determines the diversity of a biome, and while overall diversity tends higher towards the equator and lesser towards to poles, there are many exceptions to this rule.
-Humid, Warm and Predictable. This is what BIONIC is talking about, and while the southeast might be overall warm and humid, during winter it is far from predictable, as the US South (Outside of south Florida) is prone to extreme shifts in temperatures due to cold air masses from the north. Since these air masses travel thousands of miles over nothing but land, they retain the cold temperatures much better than if they were to travel over the ocean or large body of water which would moderate any extreme temperatures. The tropics also have very little variation throughout the year in regards to temps and rainfall, where the US South is more season-oriented.
1.)Warmth and wetness is only one factor, yes, but it is a huge factor in allowing for sheer biodiversity, as such conditions allow for proliferation of the types of organism that need such conditions to survive, including amphibians, fish, plants, fungi, and many types of arthropods (insects, crustaceans, arachnids, etc).
2.)Certain inland/mountainous areas may be more variable during winter, but, along the coastal South, winter weather is predictable; yes, cold fronts can bring change in temps, but such changes aren't all that drastic, not enough to disrupt ecosystem activity. You have to understand the weather of the coastal South; the climate is indeed mild/warm for much of the winter, and whatever cold present comes only in shots for a handful of days. Even with such cold, low temps usually bottom out above freezing, and even when it does freeze in some parts, the duration is only for an hour or so, before temps rebound right up to the 60-70F range. Because of that, the ground stays quite warm (in terms of soil temps, the coastal South growing season is 365 days long), and biological activity still goes on; plants continue growing, crickets still chirp, wasps and bees still fly around, etc. The ecosystem just never goes dormant in the coastal South, even after a freeze; that's why the region has lots of evergreen trees native to the region.
Because of the seasonal changes that take place poleward from the equator, the Southeast won't be as bio-diverse as a tropical rainforest. However, out of all the regions in the CONUS, the Southeast comes closest to approximating tropical rainforest conditions, and sharing their traits, and thus, is the most bio-diverse region in the US, as per the maps I've posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeOrange
Geographic diversity goes hand in hand with biodiversity as well. While a specific ecosystem in the US Coastal South may rank high in biodiversity, these areas tend to be somewhat uniform along the coast since there are no real geographic boundaries or changes in elevation to encourage differences of adaptation or evolution of native species. With that being said, the Southeast US does score very highly in diversity of reptiles, amphibians and fish, there are other areas of the US that score higher for plants, mammals, and birds, specifically the states of New Mexico, California, Oregon, and Arizona. (Texas is another one, however the study has no noted distinction of where exactly in Texas the biodiversity is considered. We all know that Texas falls under either US Southeast, or Desert in this particular debate). Kinda weird that 2 out of 4 of those states are primarily desert, huh.
This is the only handicap the South has compared to the West in terms of allowing for biodiversity, and even with such handicap, the South still is the most bio-diverse region of the US, in terms of total species richness. Imagine if the South had every nook and cranny of land filled with varied topography, just like the West Coast; then it would beat the West in biodiversity by astronomical proportions, the scale would be blown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeOrange
Anyway, here is a few little snippets from a government website about the Sonoran Desert specifically, and it shows that not all of earths deserts are created equally.
And even then, the Sonoran Desert still is a wasteland compared to the other biomes; other biomes just have more species, despite the Sonoran Desert's oasis status compared to other deserts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
Exactly what I have been saying. Having a difference in opinion is a great thing, something I will always appreciate actually as it provides for a good conversation. It's Bionic's choice of wording that has upset other people. I think people do take it personally when you call their home a "wasteland". If Bionic chose to reword their first post about deserts in this thread, and then to not debate people about it, I promise this entire thing could have been avoided.
It also could have been avoided if posters had thicker skin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
Actually if you look at your link and look into bird, plant, mammal, etc. diversity you will find Arizona's warmest (and therefore more diverse) areas are the Southeastern part of the state by where I live. While there are sky islands in my vicinity, yes, they do not take up large areas like that believe me so it is 98% the Sonoran Desert (and the other 2% probably belonging to the 14 sky islands we have in this area).
If your sky island assumption was correct, there would be a warm-colored line of sorts, running Northwest to Southeast, from roughly the latitude of Nevada's southernmost point in Flagstaff and into New Mexico at the latitudes of Phoenix and Los Angeles (as this area is the exact same climate of the sky islands and is roughly 1/4 of the state). There would also be warm-colored dots for the sky islands that exist in Southeast Arizona like Mount Lemmon and Mount Graham, and a couple separated areas like the Eastern end of the Grand Canyon. Whereas the entire rest of the state would be blue because it's a desert climate.
From your link, quite literally what I'm describing is the map of "tree diversity" if you look at Arizona. You can see the sky islands are dotted yellow, along with the area I described in Northern Arizona, and even the East end of the Grand Canyon is somewhat yellow as well. You'll see that all the other maps contrast this one and the red areas are in SE and Central Arizona, by Tucson and Phoenix. Except for mammal diversity, which ours is not only in the desert but this mountainous green part of our state as well.
The map just gave a general shading of the area corresponding to where those groups of sky islands were located, hence the appearance of the entire southeastern AZ being shaded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
It's clear you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to the desert or even our states. Please just research it before talking about it. If you actually looked into the site you linked to and looked at a map of Arizona you would see that for yourself without any experience being here.
Only except you've just shown you lacked knowledge about not only your state, but the specific area of your state. Way to make a fool of yourself.
It's pretty much a stretch to try and sell things like biodiversity and marine life as scenic anyways.
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