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Oh I will visit these places in the south for sure! Thank you for the recommendations. As I run through all the ideas you're sharing with me, its just become clear that I want to be closer to my family at least for these few years. I love Savannah and parts of north Florida and I'm certain I would love parts of Tennessee and North Carolina too, for sure - great for kayaking and good literary scene in NC. Just realizing I think I want to be Westerly - sorry this is a process for me too.
And I do love places that have dramatic seasons - some day I think I will live somewhere like Vermont or Maine, and someday I bet I will live somewhere like Flagstaff or Santa Fe. And I think in the near future I may live somewhere very dramatic like northern Minnesota or Montana or Wyoming, because of my love of wilderness and wolves.
I have already lived in Kansas and Indiana for 12 years - in addition to winters in the Sierras and winters in Northern Europe - and so I know that winters ARE a big deal. I've done it - I've survived 3-6 months of snow, cold, etc. For me it was a point of pride to survive, but I don't want to do that anymore. I have a lot of stress in my life with family members and a more moderate climate is what I'd love for awhile. Not enough to live in Los Angeles, but enough to not want to live in the Midwest again for awhile. For me, spring doesn't come before you know it, it's ticking day after day until you can go outside comfortably. And my experiences in muggy climates, from the midwest to the South is that - for a California "dry" climate girl - the summers are interesting but so damp and hot its hard to be outside, and hard to garden.
Nothing wrong with any of that. I've had those experiences. For now, hoping to find something milder for a few years. So it's probably in the West and probably somewhere in California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho-ish, I'm guessing, but wondering where.
I am open to the desert next year. Right now I'm thinking coast or inland mountains. Just wondering where I can afford with the other criteria, or some of it. I drove all over the north part of the state again today in search of a destination and I am so exhausted and frustrated. Last week I drove all over Oregon - and absolutely loved it - but it is far from my family.
If Ashland and Bend are both out of your price range (i didn't read your first post carefully enough) then Ketchum/Sun Valley will be too. Much more so.
But you said under (or no more than?) $1500 a month. Right? I've periodically looked at the Ashland craigslist listings and in the past, Bend as well. There's really nothing affordable in either of those places? Because Ashland in particular seems like it might be a good fit given all of your criteria. And you'd be relatively close to family. And the winters wouldn't be intense.
Those are in Ashland and then you can find less expensive rentals in Medford although that's probably not what you want.
And there's a bunch of listings in Bend that are quite a bit under your max rental budget. I clicked the dog box on both listing pages btw. So these listings are all dog friendly.
You would do well to try out Sacramento, at least for the time being. It really fits your criteria: warm, sunny, low humidity, liberal, dog-friendly, near water, near mountains, kayaking, diverse, artsy, affordable, and near your family.
I have many of the same interests as you -- kayaking, dogs, and a love of nature and the mountains (as well as biking). I've lived in many areas in the Midwest and also in Maine (which I truly loved), but like you, I am not keen on going back to the snow, ice, humidity and red-state attitudes. Of all the places I've lived, Sacramento has offered the best year-round access to the outdoors at an affordable price.
There are many, many places close to Sacramento that are great for kayaking, including the American River, Lake Natoma, Lake Clementine, Cosumnes River Parkway, Mokelumne River, the Delta, reservoirs, the GORGEOUS alpine lakes in the Sierras -- not to mention Lake Tahoe. We can drop our kayaks in the American River just a few blocks from our house. Sacramento itself is flat, but the foothills are nearby and the Sierra mountains are a little over an hour away. There are lots of great hiking trails near here, and almost all are dog-friendly - my favorite parks are Auburn, Cache Creek, Cronan Ranch and Hidden Falls. Plus, the Bay area is close enough for a day trip.
As any large city, some of the Sacramento suburbs are bland, but we have beautiful city neighborhoods and suburbs. Have you checked out leafy Midtown, East Sacramento, Land Park or Curtis Park? How about Fair Oaks, Folsom or El Dorado Hills? Davis is super cute and liberal but expensive. Auburn and Placerville are nice and close to nature, but probably more conservative than you'd like, and Grass Valley and Nevada City are getting pricey.
If you ever decide to move across the country and don't mind the winter, Portland, Maine, is a lovely place to live.
Let me know if you have questions. Now is my time to duck, because I strongly suspect a particular poster will jump all over me for daring to suggest Sacramento :0
Last edited by la_cavalière; 03-12-2016 at 05:04 PM..
Are you referring to moi perchance?
Well, first of all i'm fairly certain that Jiffer76 is aware of Sacramento since she's a native Californian (i think) and i think grew up in the bay area.
And second ... yeah, it's terribly hot in the summer and the air quality is horrible. That's all. From me. About Sacramento.
(i was nice though right? and pithy too )
"If Ashland and Bend are both out of your price range (i didn't read your first post carefully enough) then Ketchum/Sun Valley will be too. Much more so. But you said under (or no more than?) $1500 a month. Right? I've periodically looked at the Ashland craigslist listings and in the past, Bend as well. There's really nothing affordable in either of those places? Because Ashland in particular seems like it might be a good fit given all of your criteria. And you'd be relatively close to family. And the winters wouldn't be intense."
Ashland is ideal except for the distance from my parents. I have been focusing on Mount Shasta, but after a few trips up and back, that is seeming too far away too, and Ashland is farther. I drove up yesterday to go visit a bunch of rentals in Ashland and Medford, and got as far as Mount Shasta. Then Ashland got dumped with 2 feet of snow in a big storm and I turned around and drove back home. Because I had just been on here explaining I am done living in the snow. 10 hours driving in one day. Sigh.
Have seen those places, though, thank you! That one is lovely but only available for a short while in the summer. It's true that Bend has a small handful of places in that price range that accept a dog, but then I started thinking about the winters and the distance from real civilization and I might not be ready for Bend yet, or at least not a Bend winter. That's why I had focused on Ashland (and Talent, and Medford etc). Then that got hit with a snow storm. Just took it as an omen, although Ashland has always called out to me for sure.
La Cavaliere - oh yes, you are right. Sacramento makes some kind of sense. Are you from the area? Growing up here though and my experience of Sacramento is that Sac is sort of where you come to die. It's the Florida of California - the epitome of one gigantic flat, hot, boring suburb. It probably IS the things you are saying "It really fits your criteria: warm, sunny, low humidity, liberal, dog-friendly, near water, near mountains, kayaking, diverse, artsy, affordable, and near your family." - it just gives me the heebie jeebies. It has that slow buzzing feeling of nothing happening (except some parts and downtown). And the American River is almost entirely beer at this point, along with the end result of drinking beer.
I am a member of the Sac Yakkers! If I do stay in the area I am going to get more active with them. Good suggestions.
Some of those places I haven't visited, so I will do. But it's still a few hours drive to Tahoe and Grass Valley, Nevada City etc, which I assume are the alpine places you're referring to. I considered living in each of those towns too.
I agree Davis is super cute and liberal - but flat and expensive. I love hanging out in Davis, but living there is another thing. I also agree that Grass Valley and Nevada City are lovely, and have looked up there, but just too pricy, crowded, and yuppy. Whereas Auburn and Placerville have charms but are WAY too conservative and isolating.
I can't live in Folsom for personal reasons - and maybe they are the reasons I have a mildly irrational distaste for Sacramento - but it is also the Sac traffic in and out, omg it is horrible. It's like a hot nor Cal Los Angeles sometimes.
I don't mean to jump all over you for suggesting Sac, it does make some sense. Many have suggested it. And I know there are perfectly decent livable parts, artsy and diverse parts, but for some reason it still gives me the heeby jeebies. Too many people, strip malls, quiet tract houses, and freeways I think. I know there is more to that so no offense, its just some personal thing but I can take another peek. If we have lots in common and you don't mind it there it can't be so bad.
On the other hand, gaaahhh. I sure don't get excited about it - strip malls traffic smog, noise congestion people mundanity.
Honestly the perfect area is Santa Rosa, which is where I am from. It's so expensive though, gone up 40% in the last year
Any votes for Chico or Napa or Hidden Valley?
Hidden Valley isn't exactly diverse, artsy, etc. But there's a lake and its warm and nearish family. I try to console myself that at least its not Clearlake.
Any votes for selling everything I own and just living in a box somewhere along the Bay? I sort of feel like that's what it's going to come to if I don't find a place soon.
"Have you checked out leafy Midtown, East Sacramento, Land Park or Curtis Park? How about Fair Oaks, Folsom or El Dorado Hills?"
I'll look at them - what makes those neighborhoods attractive? I'm familiar with Folsom, and mostly its for owners not renters, but I remember thinking what was attractive about it was that it was silent, bland, harmless. Visiting people there is one thing, but living there alone might be another. Do you kayak at Folsom Rec Area?
Boise might be a good match for you if you live in the North End neighborhood, which is liberal. The white water kayaking on the various forks of the Payette river are world class.
I don't know when you lived in Indiana, or where, but climate change is rapidly diminishing the harshness of winter weathers in much of the Midwest, and lengthening the other seasons. The change is very noticeable from decade to decade. Winters seem like they are at least 10 degrees warmer, with sub-10 degree F. temperatures now very infrequent, with sub-zero let alone -10 degree temperatures a thing of the past in most winters.
Typically now in Cleveland, significant snow storms don't take place until after Christmas, although two years ago there was a heavy storm in November, but then now snow again until after Christmas.
Similarly, hot, oppressively humid summer weather in the South likely will become worst, and states will have to begin to deal with the consequences of climate change, whether expensive coastal projects or water shortages.
As someone who detests hot, humid weather more than winters, as you move south from I-70, the summer weather becomes ever more unacceptable to me.
Check monthly weather for this past winter in Cleveland here:
The rivers in NEO and even Lake Erie offer placid kayaking except during and after major storm events or extremely rainy periods. E.g., see post 12 here.
"Have you checked out leafy Midtown, East Sacramento, Land Park or Curtis Park? How about Fair Oaks, Folsom or El Dorado Hills?"
I'll look at them - what makes those neighborhoods attractive? I'm familiar with Folsom, and mostly its for owners not renters, but I remember thinking what was attractive about it was that it was silent, bland, harmless. Visiting people there is one thing, but living there alone might be another. Do you kayak at Folsom Rec Area?
Jiffer -
I agree many of the suburbs here are bland and boring, but suburbs are bland and boring in every city I have ever been to - including the Bay area. You should really check out Sacramento's city neighborhoods, including Midtown, East Sac, Land Park and Curtis Park.
We've lived in a neighborhood in Midtown, just east of downtown, for four years. It's a quiet residential area with a mix of architectural styles, including Craftsman, Victorian, Tudor, Dutch Revival, Mission, California bungalow and Colonial homes. We live in a super cute renovated 1929 Tudor revival (3 bed/3 bath). No two houses look alike. Not boring. Not bland. Not cookie cutter. Towering trees create a green canopy over the streets. Thanks to the shade and the Delta Breeze, we rarely use our AC in the summer. We eat outside much of the year, in the yard or on a restaurant patio.
We can walk or bike to just about everything in Midtown: the bakery, the drugstore, tons of local (non-chain) restaurants, pubs, coffee shops and art galleries, even the grocery story. (But we still have plenty of parking for our two cars.) We have a dog park five blocks from our house, and a plot in the community garden two blocks away.
People in this neighborhood are diverse, open-minded, friendly and active in the community. There are a mix of young people, professionals, retirees, singles, couples, and some families. It's easy to meet people. In fact, we are having a neighborhood happy hour at one of the cool neighborhood bars tonight. We have many Bay-area transplants - we call them "refugees" - who love living here.
Although we live in the city, nature is a 15-minute walk away. I often walk in the mornings along the river and enjoy watching the hawks, herons, egrets, buffleheads, cormorants - even sea lions, river otters and beavers. We kayak in the river near our house (it's very calm in this area), but there are many other beautiful places nearby to kayak along the lower and upper American River. (We haven't kayaked in Folsom Lake yet, either because the lake was too low or because of all the power boats.) The American River flows from the Sierra mountains and is quite pristine and clear. (I don't get your beer comment -- are you talking about the rafters? We rarely see any rafters where we kayak, but we have sea kayaks so we mostly stick to flat water.)
If you have a bike, the biking here is fantastic. The American River Bike Trail runs all the way along the river from Old Sacramento to Folsom and is mostly flat. I pick up the trail six blocks from my house. The Midtown area is easy to bike around due to the street grid.
Grass Valley and Nevada City are just over an hour from Sac, Auburn and Placerville are 45 minutes away, and South Lake Tahoe is 2 hours away (not a few hours). Point Reyes and Marin Headlands are about a 2-hour drive.
East Sacramento, Land Park, Curtis Park and Elmhurst are arguably even more charming than Midtown, although a little farther from the action. I invite you to visit these areas and drive around - or better yet, walk around - these neighborhoods. For suburbs, Fair Oaks has a cute, but small, downtown area, and Old Town Folsom is charming, if touristy. And yes, you could get a pretty nice place here for you and your dog for $1500.
Good luck with your decision. We also can live just about anywhere due to our jobs, and sometimes having too many choices is overwhelming. So far, we prefer to stay in California. Given the toxic political climate, I can't imagine moving to a red state.
Google Image searches for Midtown Sacramento, East Sacramento and Land Park:
Last edited by la_cavalière; 03-13-2016 at 01:22 PM..
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