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Old 03-18-2016, 05:26 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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There are no areas in the U.S. that are as different as Ontario and Quebec are in Canada.

Those 2 provinces are right next to each other and a convincing argument can be made that Quebec belongs in a separate country.
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
There are no areas in the U.S. that are as different as Ontario and Quebec are in Canada.

Those 2 provinces are right next to each other and a convincing argument can be made that Quebec belongs in a separate country.
Canada is a little different in that each province is still aware that it is a collection of different countries. They stick together for protection and economy moreso than cultural affinity.

I mean, just look at the Yukon and Nunavut and tell me they are just like Manitoba or New Brunswick. Ain't gonna happen.

The US on the other hand is samey-wamey all over the mainland. The same fast food, the same TV, the same suburban hellscape, etc. etc. Accents and landscape change more than anything else in modern America.
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:42 PM
 
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Sorry Jennifat for late reply, moving house, Its just observations from CD posts that Americans are very aware of cultural and racial lines, I think though there seems to be a very strong sense of identity and kinship in the South ( which has a stronger racial kinship and deeper colonial roots) than say Minniapolis ( sic) which I guess would be German/Scandanavian as opposed to Scots-Irish/ Scottish/English/Welsh
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:50 PM
 
Location: PHX -> ATL
6,311 posts, read 6,727,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
In 1981 Joel Garreau published a book entitled The Nine Nations of North America.

That book created a LOT of attention on this subject, and it fascinated me. I never got rid of my copy of the book, and I am holding it in my hand right now.

35 years ago, he said that nine distinct American Nations exist, based on shared culture and values rather than on national or state lines or even physical environments.

The 9 Nations he identifies are:

Quebec Includes not only Quebec but also some of Eastern Ontario and Northern Maine
New England Also includes some of the eastern Canadian provinces
The Foundry What we now call the "Rustbelt"
Dixie Historically Confederate states plus a little bit more to the west
Mexamerica Southern California and what we think of now as the "Southwestern" states
The Bread Basket What is typically thought of as the Midwest, dipping into OK and TX and central Canadian provinces
The Empty Quarter The non-Coastal "West" and much of central and western Canada and Alaska
Ecotopia The west coast from central California up to Anchorage
The Islands Southern Florida and the Caribbean Islands, including Cuba

(Found this image on Wikipedia - it is not the image on the cover of Garreau's book so I'm not sure if this is a copyrighted image or not)

Here's an article he wrote for the New York Times, published July 2014.: Nine Nations of North America, 30 Years Later - NYTimes.com In the article he basically says that from his perspective, the 9 Nations have stayed pretty much the same, and that he is seeing that people are again talking about the concept of different nations in America.

I mostly agree with his perspective, although I think I would move the Breadbasket lines a little further east and not so far south.
I don't agree with the image. Even though Northern Arizona is climatically different than the southern half of the state, the Arizonan culture still lies there. And that's where it gets tricky. Lots of Arizona heritage is in that region and it's separated from the rest of it. I don't think the country could ever be divided so clean considering culture is more of a gradient in this country. People could probably make arguments that Nevada is a lot like California, especially since Nevada has been invaded by Californians probably more so than the other neighboring states yet it's separated. And is Nevada really similar enough to Alaska, more similar to Alaska than California and Southern Arizona?

I also don't like the name "Empty Quarter". Sounds depressing... Makes me think of Siberia when I hear that.
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:59 PM
 
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Oh dear Nigerian from Texas, Wales is the original Britain!!!the Welsh are the original British!!!! England and Wales are not that different, not even genetically, more Nigerians in England though!
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Old 03-18-2016, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,209,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
Bear in mind that his criteria was "shared culture and values". So I would argue that he is still correct with his identified nations, whether or not specific areas still have a machine based economy anymore or whether or not other areas aren't "empty".
For starts, the people who have moved to the "Empty Quarter" came from these other "nations". Secondly, just what "shared culture and values" do we "Empty Quarters" have that you don't have, and vice versa? This theory is sorely lacking in real evidence.
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Old 03-18-2016, 04:44 PM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
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Is America really four nations, the North, South, West and Midwest?



I'm sure some ignorant people would say that it is, but the truth it is not. This is one great country united.
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Old 03-18-2016, 06:57 PM
 
6,900 posts, read 7,528,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
For starts, the people who have moved to the "Empty Quarter" came from these other "nations". Secondly, just what "shared culture and values" do we "Empty Quarters" have that you don't have, and vice versa? This theory is sorely lacking in real evidence.
Well, having just moved to South Dakota from Minnesota, and having lived in a total of 15 American states throughout my life, I would say that the culture in what he calls the "Empty Quarter" is pretty different from other areas (ok, so it's a stupid name. Call it Googlyschmoogly to take the stigma of the term 'Empty' away). The concept of keeping government out of individual life is VERY VERY VERY VERY strong here, and is a daily point of conversation in a very different way than in other areas such as the Southwest or the Southeast. In the Western or Southeastern areas the POV is more due to bitterness about existing government action, while in Googlyschmoogly the POV is proactive v reactive. The culture is built into state government and laws in Googlyschmoogly in a way that just isn't the case in other areas. In an area where the population is less crowded, individualism takes a different more overt form than individualism in places that are so overpopulated that people have to retreat into themselves for privacy.

It wasn't Garreau's contention that the borders of any of his regions are set hard and fast, simply that there is a dominant culture and values that are somewhat different than in other places.

And I really agree with him.

I would just add that IMHO there really are two overriding American Nations: Urban and Rural.

Anyway, people have been arguing about this subject since the beginning of America. Is America really a melting pot?
Nope. It never was.
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Old 03-18-2016, 07:05 PM
 
5,051 posts, read 3,547,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty011 View Post
Is America really four nations, the North, South, West and Midwest?



I'm sure some ignorant people would say that it is, but the truth it is not. This is one great country united.
We are so young a nation that we think we notice our differences when in reality they are small.

Compare America's regions to others like southern Germany to Berlin or Wales to London or Hong Kong/Guangzhou to Beijing to Chungdu or Xinjiang, Tibet, Sumatrans to those from Java or Bali, Kurdish Turks or Iraqis or Iranians to their countrymen (shall I continue?)

In reality we are so very much alike (Canada too (sorry but true).)
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Old 03-18-2016, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,209,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
Well, having just moved to South Dakota from Minnesota, and having lived in a total of 15 American states throughout my life, I would say that the culture in what he calls the "Empty Quarter" is pretty different from other areas (ok, so it's a stupid name. Call it Googlyschmoogly to take the stigma of the term 'Empty' away). The concept of keeping government out of individual life is VERY VERY VERY VERY strong here, and is a daily point of conversation in a very different way than in other areas such as the Southwest or the Southeast. In the Western or Southeastern areas the POV is more due to bitterness about existing government action, while in Googlyschmoogly the POV is proactive v reactive. The culture is built into state government and laws in Googlyschmoogly in a way that just isn't the case in other areas. In an area where the population is less crowded, individualism takes a different more overt form than individualism in places that are so overpopulated that people have to retreat into themselves for privacy.

It wasn't Garreau's contention that the borders of any of his regions are set hard and fast, simply that there is a dominant culture and values that are somewhat different than in other places.

And I really agree with him.

I would just add that IMHO there really are two overriding American Nations: Urban and Rural.

Anyway, people have been arguing about this subject since the beginning of America. Is America really a melting pot?
Nope. It never was.
Well that explains it! Allow me a couple of anecdotes. My daughter grew up in CO, moved to MN a few years ago. Just recently, she told me MN would never legalize marijuana b/c they "like their laws". Then a few days later, I was talking to my pastor, who is from South Dakota and went to seminary in MN. She was asked to do a wedding in MN and said she'd have to check the laws b/c in CO, anyone can marry a couple, but MN has all these laws. When I told her my daughter felt the same way, she said it was hard to get used to in MN b/c in South Dakota, "anything goes". Do note that S. Dakota is part of the "Breadbasket" along with MN in Garreau's scheme.

I have lived in 7 states. I think it's good to get different perspectives. I have found subtle differences, and I've lived in "The Foundry", "The Breadbasket", "The Empty Quarter" and "Mexamerica". I did not find Illinois as overbearing with laws as my daughter and pastor find MN.
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